F lever is tuned very low but sounds good. It seems strange

Peter Hay · From: California, USA

Hello!

I have a Mullen Royal Precision SD-12 Extended E 9th with pad, 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. I'm just starting to use the F lever and A pedal.

Like everyone else it seems, I lower my major 3rds a few cents to make it sound better. This also means I need to lower my A pedal so the interval of a 5th between the A pedal raising to a 6th and the open lowered major third on string 6 sounds ok.

If i follow this 'logic', then I need to lower the F produced by the F lever quite drastically because it is the 3rd of the chord when used with the A pedal which is already lowered to compensate for the lowered open 3rd.

So it winds up metering closer to an E than an F on my tuner, but it sounds good. It just seems quite drastic.

It turns out I have to compensate a bit with the bar as well by gong just a bit farther than 3 frets from an open chord, which is ok, but I'm just seeing if I am going too far out here.

Anyone have any guidance on this?

Thanks

Peter Hay

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

If you go to links at top right corner of Forum page, Go down on the right side of the page to copendents. Check out Jeff Newman's copendent. His copendent shows the A pedal +8 B's go to -6 C#'s. It also lists the the knee lever's lowers +10 E's to -18 F.

Happy Steelin.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Add to that, the cabinet drop. You end up playing between the frets with the F lever. Fact of life.
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Jeremy Threlfall · From: now in Western Australia

I have to tune close to ET for shows - but at home, my Fs are tuned -25 cents. I then simply play my AF inversions a third of the distance past the fretline
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Peter Freiberger · From: California, USA

Lloyd Green came up with the E-F change and famously used it on Tammy Wynette’s “DIVORCE”. I was in Nashville for the Western Edge opening at the Hall of Fame and saw him. He commented on a related Forum post I had made and explained to me how that change must necessarily be played past the fret marker to be in tune. Of course he is 100% correct, as always.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

We have to tune thirds a tad flat to make them sound nice, so by the time you've flattened the third of a flat third, you're going to have to squirm up the neck a little. Mathematics.
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Tommy Mc · From: Middlesex VT

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Of course it's really an E# lever, but that's too pedantic for everyday Smile

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John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Peter, we'll get into these tuning weeds at your next Skype lesson if you like. Basically, here's how I do it:

Once you get your A and B pedals sounding good in closed major chords, they're set, don't touch them.

Now tune your string 4 raise to F to be that slightly flat major 3rd of the A+F chord. I tune that by striking a string 5A harmonic at fret 9, the reference tone, then string 4F at fret 5 harmonic. Math string 4 to string 5.

Now the trouble is your open chord slightly flatted major 3rds on strings 3 and 6, are now the 5th scale degree in your A+F chord, and of course they are flat, which sounds awful.

I fix that with raise compensators, extra pull rods activated by the F lever. String 3 doesn't seem to need much, if any, compensating, But string 6 sure does! For Mullen you'll need to order their unique but wonderful pull rods and cotter pins.

I'll demo all this in lesson, Peter.
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John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Peter, we'll get into these tuning weeds at your next Skype lesson if you like. Basically, here's how I do it:

One you get your A and B pedals sounding good in closed major chords, they're set, don't touch them.

Now tune your string 4 raise to F to be that slightly flat major 3rd of the chord. I tune that by striking a string 5A harmonic at fret 9, the reference tone, then the string 4F at fret 5.

Now the trouble is your open chord slightly flatted major 3rds aon strings 3 and 6, are now the 5th scale degree in your A+F chord, and of course they are flat, which sounds awful.

I fix that with raise compensators, extra pull rods activated by the F lever. String 3 doesn't seem to need much, if any, compensating, But string 6 sure does! For Mullen you'll need to order their unique but wonderful pull rods and cotter pins.
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I tune my F-lever so that the A+F combo sounds awesome!
Then I fudge the bar a lil sharp as needed to make it sound awesome with the band.
I tune Jeff Newman style.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I'm a little alarmed at the idea of compensating rods.

I tune in near-JI with the 3rds very slightly sharp for safety. I get perfect triads in all three positions (pedals up, pedals down and A/F). All I have to is remember to play sharp of the fret in A/F, although it's a habit by now so I never actually forget.

I don't quite see the need for any mechanical aid.
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Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

If you tune it 24 flat, it sure doesn't sound good when you add it to an AB chord to get an augmented chord.
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John Sluszny · From: Brussels, Belgium

John Sluszny · From: Brussels, Belgium

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I checked my Steel and I would say I tune strings 4-5 at 6AF, to match strings 5-6 at 10 AB.
When I play the string 4-5-6 10ABF augmented chord it sounds pretty good-and-tense and I think would be easily workable within a bands overall intonation (I don't usually use alot of augmented chords).
I use A+F and variations of A+F all the time, so I like those to sound good to me.
My other anchor notes for playing in bands are E's and B's at 442.
With AB down, my A notes are 440.

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