Busted Magnatone - advice sought

Charles Allen · From: California, USA

Hi Folks - I am a new guy here. Gigging bass player who just inherited a 50's era Magnatone Varsity lap steel that I would like to use. It was my father-in-law's and he says it used to work, but when I plug it into an amp I get nothing - not even a humm. Of course tried different amps/cords just to make sure it's not my stuff.

Otherwise it appears to be structurally correct and playable, but the electronics are inoperative. So I opened the little hatch on the back and pulled out the wiring. Everything appears to be connected - no loose wires that I can see. Nothing grounded.

The components appear original, i.e. really old. When I compare to the wiring diagrams helpfully available online I can see that this unit does not correspond to any diagram I have seen so far. Here is what I am seeing on this one:

Anyway, I am not sure how to proceed. I could just start replacing components...or I could just replace everything and start over. Is there any particular value in retaining any of these old components. Are there any tone-volume wiring sets that would just drop in and work with these oddball pickups? Thanks for any help. I am an experienced musician and have replaced lots of components on various items, but nothing this old and weird. Best wishes - Chuck Allen.

Thanks for any advice and best wishes.

Robert B Murphy · From: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

My first step would be to check the pickup by unsoldering the lead at the resistor/cap connection and look for continuity with an ohmmeter. If it's not either zero ohms or infinite ohms I would put the meter on the ac volt setting and see if it will detect a signal when you whang on the strings. If the pickup windings are open, ie: the wire is broken, I'd look into getting it rewound. I would want to keep it as original as possible but wouldn't worry about the pots, resistor, cap and jack.
_________________
Bob, small o.

Noah Miller · From: Rocky Hill, CT

Any single-pickup wiring harness will work, though if the pot and cap values are different it won't sound quite like when the guitar left the factory. Whether that matters is up to you. A single-pickup harness like that for a P-bass would be an easy solution if you want to go that route.

I'd first disconnect the pickup and read the resistance right off the leads. It will probably be something like 3K to 5K ohms; if it's an order of magnitude lower you have a short in the coil, and if it's an order of magnitude higher you have an open (broken) coil. If it reads a few thousand ohms, there's a 99.99999% chance the pickup itself is OK.

If you prefer to try replacing individual solutions, I would go with 500K pots and a .022 uF cap. This will maximize the available output (these Magnatones tend to have fairly low output) as well as the available treble. If it's too bright, maybe swap for a 250K tone pot and/or a .047 uF cap. I'd start by swapping out the volume pot; the steel may spring to life with just that.

On higher-end vintage instruments, having the original components adds to the value. However, on a run-of-the-mill Magnatone, the value lies more in it being playable than original.

Glenn Wilde · From: California, USA

I would go at it with a multimeter and find the culprit, the fact that it makes no sound at all sounds like a broken wire to me. Try plugging it in with the harness out of the guitar and jiggle the wires around.

Robert B Murphy · From: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Noah's right about the value as compared to an old Rick, Fender, National..., but they aren't making mots covered guitars anymore and your guitar is a pretty nice example. I like the fretboard too.
_________________
Bob, small o.

Jeff Highland · From: New South Wales, Australia

i would not expect the brown wire from the pickup to go to the intersection of the the resistor and cap. more commonly straight to the pot tab.
But I would be checking the pickup with a multimeter first as Noah and Glenn have suggested
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

Jeff is correct. The wire from the pickup should not be attached where it is but to the wiper of the volume pot.
_________________
Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso

Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

if you dont have a meter or any electronic skills, you can always just take two alligator clip wires and straight wire the pickup to a guitar cord and plug it in and see if the pickup works. you are basically just bypassing the vol/tone controls and sending the output of the pickup straight to the amp. by doing this, you get the best approximation of what your pickup really sounds like. adding the other stuff always removes a little of your pickup. i do a mod for some guitar players that gives them the pickups straight out of the guitar to the amp. they are always amazed how much is subtracted from the sound by the pots and caps and wiring.

Charles Allen · From: California, USA

Hi Folks - thanks so much for the suggestions. Luckily I discovered that there is a shop specializing in steel guitars just about 5 miles from me. Who knew? I'm taking it over there next week to see what they think. More to follow when I learn more. Best wishes.

Charles Allen · From: California, USA

I never was able to connect with my local lap steel experts. As suggested I just connected leads to the wires from the pickup directly to a jack and that worked fine, with a fair amount of ground hum. So, desoldered the pickup wires and ran direct. Getting a good sound and I will just run it thru my volume pedal to control level if needed. If I feel the need for tone control, I can do that on my little Spark amp.

Looks like someone got in there and messed around, but not having ever seen the inside of one of these, I was unsure.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Charles Allen · From: California, USA

Yup. Now it sounds very nice IMHO. Thanks for the suggestion. I fumbled thru a basic version of Aloha Oe and it sounded legit to my ears. It had been tuned to C6 but starting with a low A. I retuned it in the more traditional CEGACE tuning and watched a few YouTube videos to get a basic idea of how to play - I'm a total noob. Seems to stay in tune ok. No telling how old the strings are - at least 40 years.

There is a ground wire, but I did not connect it as it's pretty quiet without doing so, once I swapped the output wires. I guess I had them backwards. They are both the same brown color with no particular way to distinguish one from the other without experimenting.

As mentioned, I can just use my volume pedal to control volume, and not sure I see the need for a tone control. My little Spark amp has so many cool presets anyway. So at the mo the electronics are in a little bag and there are just holes where the controls used to be. So it doesn't look great, but it's playing just fine. I plan to learn a few simple things in C6 - see if I can jam along with some western swing and Hawaiian music. Then maybe retune to an open E7, crank up the amp, and try some blues. Fun! Thanks again. At some point I can record the sound and send a sample along if you are curious about how it turned out.

Charles Allen · From: California, USA

Yup. Now it sounds very nice IMHO. Thanks for the suggestion. I fumbled thru a basic version of Aloha Oe and it sounded legit to my ears. It had been tuned to C6 but starting with a low A. I retuned it in the more traditional CEGACE tuning and watched a few YouTube videos to get a basic idea of how to play - I'm a total noob. Seems to stay in tune ok. No telling how old the strings are - at least 40 years.

There is a ground wire, but I did not connect it as it's pretty quiet without doing so, once I swapped the output wires. I guess I had them backwards. They are both the same brown color with no particular way to distinguish one from the other without experimenting.

As mentioned, I can just use my volume pedal to control volume, and not sure I see the need for a tone control. My little Spark amp has so many cool presets anyway. So at the mo the electronics are in a little bag and there are just holes where the controls used to be. So it doesn't look great, but it's playing just fine. I plan to learn a few simple things in C6 - see if I can jam along with some western swing and Hawaiian music. Then maybe retune to an open E7, crank up the amp, and try some blues. Fun! Thanks again. At some point I can record the sound and send a sample along if you are curious about how it turned out.

Forum Index > Steel Without Pedals		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: