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Topic: 14 string tone bars |
Justin Shaw
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 Nov 2022 12:06 pm |
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Anyone know where to get these? I know Sierra and a few other used to make them, but I don't know what size or weight they were.
Also, I would think the contact surface would need to be almost 4" long to cover all 14 strings, depending on string spacing of course. Seems like the bar would be a monster, especially if you prefer 1" diameter. If you own a bar made for a 14 stringer, what size is it?
Any info would be appreciated! |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 2 Nov 2022 2:15 pm Re: 14 string tone bars
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| Justin Shaw wrote: |
Anyone know where to get these? I know Sierra and a few other used to make them, but I don't know what size or weight they were.
Also, I would think the contact surface would need to be almost 4" long to cover all 14 strings, depending on string spacing of course. Seems like the bar would be a monster, especially if you prefer 1" diameter. If you own a bar made for a 14 stringer, what size is it?
Any info would be appreciated! |
I have had a 14 string Sierra, and now play all 12 string steels and use a standard 10 sting 7/8's bar.
Why? Because the likelkyness of me playing the 1st and 12th string TOGETHER is less than me winning the loto (and I don't play loto..., so... ).
In my long ago lap/non-pedal days playing 6, 7 and 8 string guitars, I even went down to a 8-string BJS 3/4" dia. bar like Jerry Byrd used. It was easier to handle for fore-and-backwards slant and fit the narrower neck better too.
Now that being said. Paul Franklin wrote me that he felt that the bar is meant to fit the HAND in size. And he has by for more experience that I do. But I would still remind that Jerry Byrd had rather big hands. But then JB was JB and I am just JD... so what do I know?
But I would never use a 14 string bar... its just too clumsy and I would think that most players would want their bar-hand middle finger stick out a bit further then the bar tip to block off ringing string strings when just pulling the bar towards the bassier strings.
Just opinions.... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 2 Nov 2022 2:19 pm
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| Todd Clinesmith can make any bar size you want. I had him make me a 14 string bar. |
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Justin Shaw
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 Nov 2022 4:13 pm
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JD thank you for the ideas. I have yet to settle on a tuning for the 14 string, but it doesn't seem like I would need 1 and 14 to ring together very much. I just don't like the idea of not even having the option. I'll give it some thought for sure.
And Bill thank you for the info I'll check out Todd's stuff. |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2022 10:51 am Re: 14 string tone bars
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| Justin Shaw wrote: |
Also, I would think the contact surface would need to be almost 4" long to cover all 14 strings, depending on string spacing of course. Seems like the bar would be a monster, especially if you prefer 1" diameter. If you own a bar made for a 14 stringer, what size is it?
Any info would be appreciated! |
Hi, Justin. It isn't necessary to have the bar cover all of the strings at once. I doubt you'll be in a musical situation where you will need to hit string 1 and 14 at the same time -- this will become incredibly obvious once you get the guitar. I can't imagine trying to quickly move a baseball bat that size around the neck. Like JD mentioned above... many 12-string players use the same length bar as 10-string players, leaving some strings uncovered at any given moment. Back when I played a 12, my strong preference was to use a "standard" PSG bar and it was no problem at all.
Basically, you just need to cover those string groupings you are currently playing, keeping in mind that the widest grip most people's right hand can handle spans no more than 8 strings, with most playing done spanning only 3 or 4 strings. Watch the pros work the bar, moving it slightly toward or away from their body as they move to different grips so as to get the tip -- the 'business end of the bar' in Jeff Newman's words -- over the strings being played. The top few strings often end up uncovered.
Paul Franklin knows his stuff: get the bar that best fits your hand, regardless of how many strings you have. |
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Justin Shaw
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Nov 2022 12:36 pm
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Thanks for the link other Justin 
And Tucker I totally here what you're saying. Thank you very much for the feedback! However I do have very large hands, and for example I very often play a B chord on my S10 using strings 1,2, and 10. I am fairly confident that I would still have no trouble grabbing chords using strings 1 and 14 as well. It's part of the reason I want to try 14 string, and the tuning I'm considering would have that same chord with an octave lower root, using 1,2, and 14.
That said, a bar that size would make it difficult to play lines with any speed, although it would probably have a great tone. I think I'll pick up one of the bars in that link and try it, even if I could only really use it for slower stuff.
Edit: looks like they have drilled out ones so they're lighter. Now I'll go ahead and try not to buy 3 different ones. 
Justin |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 4 Nov 2022 12:55 am
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| Justin Shaw wrote: |
Thanks for the link other Justin
And Tucker I totally here what you're saying. Thank you very much for the feedback! However I do have very large hands, and for example I very often play a B chord on my S10 using strings 1,2, and 10. I am fairly confident that I would still have no trouble grabbing chords using strings 1 and 14 as well. It's part of the reason I want to try 14 string, and the tuning I'm considering would have that same chord with an octave lower root, using 1,2, and 14.
That said, a bar that size would make it difficult to play lines with any speed, although it would probably have a great tone. I think I'll pick up one of the bars in that link and try it, even if I could only really use it for slower stuff.
Edit: looks like they have drilled out ones so they're lighter. Now I'll go ahead and try not to buy 3 different ones.
Justin |
I think you need to try different bars starting with the one you’re used to, since you are migrating to an instrument with more strings.
Playing PSG has many mechanical aspects, and compared to most other stringed instruments we use “things” on both hands to create sound, and all the mechanical devices, like picks and the bar, require accustomation and each our anatomies are different.
I think it plays into PF’s thought to suggest that one should cosider that one does not only hold a bar matching one’s hand SIZE alone, but one should find a bar one can MANIPULATE beyond just keeping it flat on a board of strings, but be able to lift off, tilt off the rear, slant both ways an be able to block/deaden off at least one string in FRONT of the bullet nose with the middle finger.
Most of all, one ought to becom COMFORTABLE with tha device.
… JD
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 4 Nov 2022 8:58 am
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Justin, in the 1990’s I played Sierra “Crown” S14 steel. After playing it for some time using a standard 10-string tone bar, I thought it might a good thing to try a larger bar. At that time I was working in the Department of Physics, at The University of Texas. A friend of mine who worked as a machinist in the department’s machine shop agreed to make a larger tone bar for me, per my specs. The bar was 4” long and 1” in diameter and was machined and polished from a piece of 410 stainless steel. The tone of the Sierra was enhanced by the new bar. Especially the mid and low frequencies. I used the bar for a number of months and realized that it slowed my bar movement and bar positioning accuracy, so I went back to my 10-string tone bar. Years later I sold the Sierra and the custom tone bar was included in the sale.
Keep on pickin’!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
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Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 4 Nov 2022 9:01 am
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Like some folks have said, it's gonna be the weight and size that become cumbersome.
I tried a 15/16" bar (over the regular length 7/8" bar) and I really felt the increased weight/heft made it more difficult to play.
I went back to as 7/8" for playing D-10s and S-12s. |
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Justin Shaw
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 4 Nov 2022 10:25 am
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My hand is big enough to easily hold a 4" bar as PF instructs, where my middle finger can still block a string. The issue is what you three have brought up: I think if it's that large and just as dense it's going to be tough to move quickly and accurately in all the ways required.
The Dunlop 920 feels like I'm holding a crayon but the weight is fine. I think I'll call up BJS and see if he can make me one of his "lite" bars at 4", and maybe 15/16. If it's 8 oz and that size I think it should work.
I'll report back if I get it figured out haha.
All great feedback thank you! |
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