| Author |
Topic: Excel E9/C6 Uni |
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 8:38 am |
|
Most Universals are E9/B6, or Bb6. I believe the lever on the Excel console changes the tuning from E9 to C6. Is that correct? Do any other guitar makers offer a similar option?
 |
|
|
 |
Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 9:05 am
|
|
I have the Excel S-12 that goes from E9th to C6 with the flip of a lever. The lever basically changes the two right knee levers between two sets of cross shafts and effectively uses a separate set of holes on the changer fingers to change all the strings from extended E9th (retains low D string) to C6 with two chromatic strings on top.
See details here:
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Excel%2012%20String%20Keyless/Excel%2012%20String%20Keyless.html |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 9:54 am
|
|
Thanks, Greg. It seems remarkable, but at the same time very complex.
How would you compare setup and tuning procedure to D10? Has anything about it proven more difficult or less convenient than D10 or E9/B6 Uni? What would be one mechanical thing you might expect to go wrong, or at least wear out from use first? |
|
|
|
Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 10:14 am
|
|
It's really simple actually. The most complex thing is the switching of the knee lever functions, done with two cross shafts per lever, and the gear shifter chooses between the two.
I have two of them, they work really well, no tuning issues.
Tuning is just like a D-10. First, there are set screws to tune the open C6th with the gear shit lever, then just tune pedals and levers in one mode, then tune in the other.
Strings last half as long! That's the only downside. |
|
|
|
Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 11:43 am
|
|
Mike covered it pretty well.
My tuning procedure:
- with flip lever in E9 position, tune open strings at key head
- tune all E9 pedals and knee levers at changer
- Flip lever to C6, tune "open" strings at changer
- tune C6 levers at pedals at changer
The Excel has super smooth linkage and operation and very positive feedback on pedal stops. |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 1:15 pm
|
|
| So it is more like a tuning-shiftable S12, rather than what is usually considered a universal. Is that how you think of it? |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 1:15 pm
|
|
Maybe I should post this in Pedants' Corner, but can the E9/C6 be called a uni in the usual sense? It's an amazing pice of engineering - you'd think it was just a nice idea that would be too difficult to do in practice, but Mitsuo Fujii has persevered and done it! But in the conventional E9/B6 setup both tunings are present at all times and you can move fluidly between them - not so with the E9/C6. On the other hand if you are not interested in the "one big tuning" idea and just want a conveniently condensed twin-neck, then fine.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 2:16 pm
|
|
Like Ian said, It's not really like universal/all at once.
I started on a D-10, and all my instruction materials are based on this. I feel mos comfortable playing in either E9 or C6.
So these guitars made it easy to ditch the heavy double neck, but not give up anything.
In fact, you get 2 extra strings on both tunings, that's a plus, especially for C6, you can have the high D AND the G!
The only hold-up for me was getting used to looking at 12 strings, and hitting the various grips buried in 12 strings. |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 3:10 pm
|
|
| Mike Vallandigham wrote: |
Like Ian (and Fred) said, It's not really like universal/all at once.
|
 |
|
|
|
Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 5:22 pm
|
|
This is your thread. Sorry Fred. 
Haha! |
|
|
|
Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 5:23 pm
|
|
DOUBLE POST.
Last edited by Mike Vallandigham on 26 Apr 2018 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 7:18 pm
|
|
Darn right, Mike!
Hehehe...
It really is astounding that a player can be a lever flip away from the two most common open tunings on a single 12 string neck. And have full functionality of all pedals and levers for both tunings? This is a step beyond universal, isn’t it? Mr. Fujii should have called it “The Multiversalâ€. |
|
|
|
Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
|
Posted 25 Apr 2018 7:45 pm
|
|
| The guitar is not a crossover as far as the pedals and knee levers go. Only the two right knee levers switch functions when the tuning lever is activated. The other knees and pedals still operate on the same strings although their pitch changes can differ when the lever is changed. For example the 4th pedal raises the C6 string 6 an A note to B. On E9 it raises the 6th string G# a tone and a half to B, a useful change! The retuning of the 6th string that occurs from changing the open tuning from C6 to E9 now results in no pedal 4 pulling the string a longer distance. So you get 3 conventional floor pedals on E9 and 5 pedals in C6 and two knees that swap between different cross shafts like the old Sho-Bud changeover. All other pedals and knees continue to operate on both tunings but their changes do not vary with the position of the tuning lever other than described above. |
|
|
|
Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
|
Posted 26 Apr 2018 9:29 am
|
|
Multiversal! Nice.
I call it genius. Mitsuo is quite a guy. I've compared my new guitar to Greg's and I see quite a few changes, even though they are only about one year apart. Not the least of which is the length. The cross rod for pedal A on my guitar is so far left, that there is an access hole for a wrench in the underside of the endplate to reach the cross rod lock collar. He has also changed the pedal stops (internal now, but not adjustable, I think) and has added a secondary stop on the other side of the cross rod to limit flex on that end. My pedal bar is different too!
With all the changes Mitsuo makes, it's a wonder that he ever has time to build guitars. his wait time is only about two months.
I really wonder if there are any two alike. The uniqueness and HAND built nature of these guitars really intrigues me. Can you tell?
Anyhow....yeah, great guitars. They sound fantastic too! |
|
|
|
Peter Roush
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 20 Nov 2022 9:48 pm
|
|
| Hi Guys. Still Enjoying my Excel S12 E9/C6. Very nice overall. Tuning is OK. However still there is the issue of String 11 which is an E in E9 and an F in C6. It is either sharp in E9 or flat in C6 because that change is beyond the throw reach of the changer(s). I've compensated by tuning the F in C6 2 db flat and the E in E9 noticeably sharp and stretching it before playing along with (following Greg's advice), bar compensating and good muting with the right hand helps. I'm going to try changing gauge from stock .054 to .056 and see if it will improve this situation, (or should I try a .052?) |
|
|
|
