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Topic: For Emmonologists: is a "woodie"-PP really a "BoltOn"? |
J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 22 Sep 2022 9:02 am |
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Most PSG guitars with wooden necks have a changer-plate made of metal (usually aluminum, machined billet or cast, some even extrusion) and a wooden neck (hopefully firmly butting against the plate) or just a wood or metal cap to simulate the neck.
I keep on seeing wood neck Emmons PSG's advertised as "Bolt-On"... even "Bolt-On Neck". Most are lacquer body guitars.
To me, in my opinion, they're not "Bolt-Ons" in the legit sense of the word.
They are Wood Neck Emmons, whether they are PP or AllPull... the changer-wood-neck array has always been the same.
To my opinionated self again, a true "Bolt-On" has the changer shaft mounts bolted thru ON a ONE-PIECE METAL NECK.
THAT array, which is reminiscent of some aluminum neck Bigsby's and reaches historically as far back as to the one piece cast aluminum Rickenbacher "Frypan", is SAID to give the "Bolt-On" it's "unique bolt-on" sound and maybe some tuning problems along with it, allegedly because of the aluminum neck's physical tendency to contract and extend due to temperature fluctuations (debatable too), and that is very different than having a base plate with the changer shaft mounts bolted on thru just like on any MSA (present and past) or many other guitars which had a one piece changer plate machined ready to hang the changer in (Sho-Bud comes to mind).
But then, I am not an Emmons specialist... I just own a few "Bolt-Ons" for the "heck'of it".
I also have a car, which has the body bolted onto the frame... and believe me, while it has great growl, it doesn't sound like any of my "Bolt-Ons", but it does ride fairly straight, as long I don't hit the that darn wide pedal! 
This is not directed at anybody particular. I just seem to keep on seeing that description for Wood Neck Emmons PSG's throughout the decades, mostly when they are being offered for sale.
... J-D.
_________________
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Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 22 Sep 2022 10:10 am
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They are not the original mid-60's 2nd generation push-pull bolt-on changer guitars. They are (mostly 70s, frequently lacquer) push-pull Emmons with wood necks and bolt-on changers. They are different than the typical 70s push-pulls with cut-tail changers.
You'll frequently see the titles (including mine) that don't say "Bolt-On changers" because there are not enough characters in the thread title text area to include a full description. But most people (including me) state the full details in the ad.
But they are Emmons push-pull guitars with bolt-on changers. When you see "70s Emmons Push-Pull {usually lacquer} Wood Necks Bolt-On", you now know exactly what it is. To my knowledge, there were none of the original mid-60s "Bolt-On" series guitars made after, I think, 1967. So there should be absolutely no confusion between these and the later (again, I think mostly if not completely 70s) bolt-on changer, wood-neck guitars. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2022 11:24 am
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In response to the two posts above, the ORIGINAL Emmons Bolt-ons were made in October of 1964 and they had wood necks. They were numbers 7-10 and had a "W" after the serial number. For example, 1064010 W. (Although, #10 was converted to cast aluminum necks sometime after it was built.) The control panel between the necks was very long to keep the cabinet decks straight.
The cast tailpiece did not have the machined ledge for the axle pillows on these first Bolt-ons because the axle was so skinny a ledge was not needed.
The pickups on at least three of the guitars are the goofy single coils with the diagonal row of magnet slugs.
Here is a photo of the changer on Number 8, 1064008 W with changed pickups. The second photo is a front of Emmons #8 1064008W so you may see the wood necks.
The third photo is a photo of #10 with changed necks and conversion to a Wraparound. Notice the blank long control panel because the controls are mounted in the side of the neck. Also, that is the goofy diagonal single coil I was describing above. (post edited to add photos)
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars.
Last edited by Chris Lucker on 22 Sep 2022 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 22 Sep 2022 11:33 am
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That's interesting.
So any MSA with the metal changer base past or present models is a "Bolt-On"... well ALL pull "Bolt-On" just like some later Emmons woodies were All-Pull "Bolt-On".
The question is thus, "bolted on what?" (not "not" but corrected "thus"... sorry)
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it.
Last edited by J D Sauser on 22 Sep 2022 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2022 11:44 am
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| J D Sauser wrote: |
That's interesting.
The question is not, "bolted on what?"
... J-D. |
Actually, that is the question, JD.
Before the Bolt-on, Emmons Wraparound changers were mounted to the wood cabinet decks and nothing else. The changers flexed a bit on these earliest Wraparounds -- think Stratocaster. The Bolton changers are bolted to the tailpiece which is bolted to the endplate -- Think Les Paul. The same with the Cut tail which has changers bolted to the block which is bolted to the endplate.
The Wraparound is the Emmons changer that is not bolted to the endplate. (Some student models too)
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 22 Sep 2022 12:00 pm
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| Chris Lucker wrote: |
| J D Sauser wrote: |
That's interesting.
The question is not, "bolted on what?"
... J-D. |
Actually, that is the question, JD.
Before the Bolt-on, Emmons Wraparound changers were mounted to the wood cabinet decks and nothing else. The changers flexed a bit on these earliest Wraparounds -- think Stratocaster. The Bolton changers are bolted to the tailpiece which is bolted to the endplate -- Think Les Paul. The same with the Cut tail which has changers bolted to the block which is bolted to the endplate.
The Wraparound is the Emmons changer that is not bolted to the endplate. (Some student models too) |
Thanks Chris.
By the way I corrected "not" for "thus" in "The question is THUS, bolted on WHAT?"
I have a basic understanding of the history and evolution as you describe.
I would still submit that the sound one associates with the term "Bolt-On" could debatably come from the short run of Emmons BoltOns which had the changer-mount bolted on (really thru) the cast aluminum neck.
The question then would be, does a woodie (wood NECK) Emmons sound like an aluminum neck BoltOn?
WHAT do we associate with the term "BoltOn"
I don't know if any lacquer body guitars were made during that original period (between "WrapAround" and "CutTail) and, IF any of THAT period, one ever had and aluminum neck (with the changer mounts bolted on it (the Neck))... (?). I BELIEVE to have seen a lacquer BODY with aluminum necks, but I am not sure if that was an push pull at all or a later all pull.
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 22 Sep 2022 12:38 pm
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Just for contrast, here are a couple of shots of a 70s wood-neck bolt-on changer (this one's mine). As you can readily see, they are different, but still bolt-on changers, in contrast to the wraparound or cut-tail changers.
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2022 1:23 pm
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J-D, I don't know what the 1970s wood neck Bolt-ons sound like compared to cats neck Bolt-ons. I have never had a 1970s wood neck Bolt-on.
The October 1964 wood neck Bolt-ons are not worth comparing because the pickups are so different. And, I have had a few cast neck Wraparounds, including a 1965 red belly built on a Wraparound cabinet with 14k pickups that sounded piercing but played like a tractor because it had the early short cross shaft cranks. At the other end of the spectrum was 1090D, which was a December 1967 Bolt-on that was smooth playing and had had pickups that had 13.5k and 22k choices. The other Bolt-ons were 1966 and 1967 and I cannot remember much about them.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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