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Topic: Never knew this existed 🤬 |
Carmen Acciaioli
From:
Texas, USA
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Jul 2022 12:12 am |
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That's horrifying. To anyone except a steel player, it sounds like a pedal steel - producers, singers, listeners.
They no longer have any reason to hire the real thing so we might as well give up and let the robots take over.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Roy Carroll
From:
North of a Round Rock
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Posted 15 Jul 2022 5:14 am
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Bad news for session players! It is pretty close and close enough for the general public. The most of which have tin ears anyway. Hopefully the engineers will not be able to figure out the program.   
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Just north of the Weird place, south of Georgetown |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2022 7:02 am
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Doesn't sound too hot to me.
Erv |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Jul 2022 7:44 am
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Nor to any of us. As a trombone player I have already had my life ruined by synth brass. It doesn't sound like real brass but no-one cares. Also it can play stuff that real horns can't, so you're doubly screwed.
It is blindingly obvious to us that that is not a real steel, but to a non-steeler it sounds just fine.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 16 Jul 2022 4:55 am
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It's surprisingly "impressive" I must admit.
But, while I don't make a living playing steel, I am not scared by it.
Music has become increasingly electronic and now computer generated, just like movie genres have an ever CGI element and some has nearly replaced acting and thus actors.
Yet still...
Just like we don't seem to see a shortage of new blood going into acting, I believe there will be those who will enjoy PLAYING "for real" on acoustic and plugged instruments. And likewise there will be a "resistance" of music consumers which will insist on "real" human made music, and likewise we will see a new flock of people who discover "music" in the darkness of a computer room.
We've seen the same "resistance" when electric (amplified) instruments seemed to render acoustic instrument of a thing of the past: re-birth of acoustic country and blue grass, Dixieland jazz and classical as well as many folkloric "world"-music stiles which are mainly acoustic.
Will it cut into some session player's business? Yes! I see that it will mostly cut into "Jingle" business (which has been a lifeline to some local players in the past)... but I suspect, that it may also introduce the instrument to musical genres which typically would not have dealt with steel players and that in turn may generate renewed interest into our instrument... for other styles maybe.
... J-D.
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__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Edward Dixon
From:
Crestview Florida
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Posted 16 Jul 2022 6:24 am
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I started out as a bass player in 1964. But now I play many instruments. I never tell anyone I am a bass player or a guitar, PSG, mandolin, banjo, or keyboard player. I consider myself a musician and say so.
Virtual instruments have been around a long time and I have come to consider them just more tools in the tool box. The key (for me) is to think like a sax player if I am using a virtual sax or a Cellist if using a virtual Cello and so on. Some instruments are polyphonic others are not.
I might be interested in this virtual PSG if I heard some samples played with a guitar MIDI controller instead of a keyboard. The samples I heard in the video might be usable for simple stuff but one would have to be a very talented keyboard player to pull off a complex PSG part.
Since I already have a MIDI equipped rig I may try this virtual PSG. The Virtual Instrument is only $179 and the player software is free. Right now I am using a Roland VG99 for bass and a GR55 for organ. Here is a photo of the new (with the Kemper Stage added) configuration as of last week, my Mullen G2 is sitting behind the keyboard out of sight and the Godin XTSA guitar is also not pictured (SA = Synth Access) It might be nice to add the virtual PSG to this rig so I wouldn't have to change seats to add a PSG part since I can control the whole studio from this rig with my iPads. I'm not a proficient PSG player and still have much to learn about it and this virtual PSG may help me get more PSG licks into my recordings quicker. I'd really like to hear some samples triggered from a guitar before I spend the money though.
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"Faith don't need no second opinion." |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 16 Jul 2022 6:49 am
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| The thing about steel samples and I play pedal steel but use samples for violins, drums and band instruments is you are locked into whatever riff/lick of the samples. There's no creativity available. Pedal steel is a complex group of sounds moving in different directions simultaneously so you are stuck with the licks in the samples. You cannot make your own new licks up so it won't be replacing session musicians. What it can do is give the man making one man band demos a chance to get some pedal steel flavor in their music. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 16 Jul 2022 10:24 am
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| After watching the Kontakt instructional video it seems it would require less knowledge to just learn to play a pedal steel. It would even sound real. 😄 |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 17 Jul 2022 7:06 am
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| I bet it Can't play the bum notes I churn out! |
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Jon Voth
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2022 7:32 pm
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| If we never look at it, or are afraid of it, it will go away. Just like the end of "It, Chapter 2". |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2022 4:55 am
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Meh... not that impressed... Reminds me of session I did years ago, with a very good vocal group of 3 young pretty women with fantastic voices.. Beautiful harmonies, sweet and folky,I had a nice E9 pedal steel pad laid under, a few nice fills here and there, everything about the tune was really very nice,,, Then the "producer" decided to "save money" and put an obnoxious, out of context loud and LONG digital trumpet/brass solo in the song and totally destroy it.. it was a really beautiful song and was completely ruined by this "sampling technology"... This virtual steel guitar abomination is closely related... No soul whatsoever, and to my ears sounded sterile and lifeless...
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Steven Hicken Jr.
From:
Leeds, United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Jul 2022 12:51 am
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
| Meh... not that impressed... Reminds me of session I did years ago, with a very good vocal group of 3 young pretty women with fantastic voices.. Beautiful harmonies, sweet and folky,I had a nice E9 pedal steel pad laid under, a few nice fills here and there, everything about the tune was really very nice,,, Then the "producer" decided to "save money" and put an obnoxious, out of context loud and LONG digital trumpet/brass solo in the song and totally destroy it.. it was a really beautiful song and was completely ruined by this "sampling technology"... This virtual steel guitar abomination is closely related... No soul whatsoever, and to my ears sounded sterile and lifeless... |
These things were always going to be made but unlike other instruments that are more simple to model such as piano, pedal steel will never be able to get close to.
The timbre and general tone is way off from what I've heard in examples and for the time spent learning how to model actual pedal steel moves and not basic glissando, you could actually learn a bit of real pedal steel.
That being said, for some previous sessions I've actually been hired to replace the midi steel which I'm pretty sure was using this emulator. Small artists on a budget will get this certainly, which will go one of 2 ways. They get something passable or they realise there's much more to pedal steel than they can work out so they go and hire the real thing.
I can't see larger studios on bigger budgets using this apart from guide for pre production demos.
_________________
25 year old wannabe.
2015 Show Pro
2020 Hudson Hudsonator (Pedabro)
202X *Insert new guitar here*
https://www.stevenhickenjr.com/ |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 19 Jul 2022 7:16 am
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Maybe the world isn't going to end after all and I should calm down.
My brother is in the music preparation business and handles a lot of film scores. While there has been a recent tendency for film companies to save money by ditching live orchestras in favour of virtual ones, the video games industry (which seems to have bigger budgets) goes all out for the real thing. This tells me that live instruments sound better, that people know it, and that they'll pay for them if they can.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 20 Jul 2022 11:58 pm
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Some of those samples sounded like a really bad beginner steel player to me, while others were quite convincing. Seems like the fast licks work a lot better, but you can't expect the average keyboard player to achieve such results. Getting into the pedal steel mindset takes years of practice – and a love for the instrument.
A couple of years ago I was at a concert where the small country-ish band had a pretty decent lead guitar player. Then he sat down to play lap steel for a couple of songs, and I thought my ears would melt. Absolutely awful in every way, a total out-of-tune trainwreck – but he didn't seem to notice or care. This goes to show that it's not enough to have "the sound" available at your fingertips, if you don't know what to play. |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 21 Jul 2022 5:08 am
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| Per Berner wrote: |
| This goes to show that it's not enough to have "the sound" available at your fingertips, if you don't know what to play. |
Absolutely. I play various instruments on a midi keyboard to simulate a variety of instruments. In order to make a convincing recording you have to voice, phrase and think like the real player of that instrument or everything sounds like a bad accordion player.
For instance violins are voiced in 3rds and 5ths. Even programming drums requires the mind of a good drummer to sound like real drums being played. In other words the player of the real instrument would do the best simulation of that instrument because they know what it suppose to do. Sometimes Nashville producers want a drum machine instead of real drums but guess who they hire to program the drum machine? The best real drums session drummers in Nashville do the programming. |
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