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Topic: Tube Shortage |
David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Nick Fryer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2022 4:18 pm |
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One thing to keep in mind is that China can still buy Russian tubes, so they will probably import Russian tubes into China and then sell them to the USA.
_________________
www.fryerguitarpickups.com |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2022 4:35 pm
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| Seems if we made electron tubes on these shores once, we can certainly do it again. Will people pay the price? Eventually. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 14 Mar 2022 4:57 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| Seems if we made electron tubes on these shores once, we can certainly do it again. Will people pay the price? Eventually. |
When we stopped manufacturing tubes in this country, the big manufacturers either scrapped the machinery and tooling or sold it to foreign countries. As it turned out, Russia was the biggest purchaser. The phase-out was done rather slowly and quietly, so as to limit the possibility of speculators. Luckily, I had bought a bunch (all I would need), and as I recall, the last 6L6GC's I bought were $6.75 each, and the last 12AX7A's were $3.75. 
But if I'd only known....  |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 14 Mar 2022 5:19 pm
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Actually, ATT restarted manufacturing of the 300B triode back in the 90's or so when it became economically feasible to do so. I think they still had a factory in Kentucky that could do it (but I could be completely off on that...I'm getting older....).
At any rate, I've gotten good triodes from Shuguang in China, and the JJ's and several other manufacturers come from former Soviet Bloc countries other than Russia.
But I think that Matthews' comments that lack of Russian tubes will lead to increased production pressure on the non-Russian tube makers, and that supply and demand will dictate more limited supply and higher prices.
Like Jack wrote, I bought a bunch of NOS tubes in the 80's and 90's so hopefully I'm set. Angela Instruments used to have tremendously good deals on NOS American 6V6, 5Y3 and other common tubes. I'm a hifi tube guy too, and have a good stash of old stock 45s, 2A3s, etc.
But the current situation is bound to impact the current tube amp makers at least for awhile. Fender is undoubtedly glad to have its DSP stuff on the market. But wait, there's a chip shortage too and that has nothing to do with Russia.
Juat glad I hoarded when I did.
Dave |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 14 Mar 2022 7:35 pm
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| Quote: |
| Juat glad I hoarded when I did. |
Ha - everybody around me told me I was paranoid/nuts to buy up tubes. Well, lotsa luck! 
I only occasionally need to buy tubes, and generally not the usual suspects. Typically, it's because I'll get some amp with wacko tubes that I don't have. Certain old Ampegs, Gibsons, Valcos, Magnatone, etc.
I agree with Donny - it would be very, very expensive to tool up to make the needed tubes here in the US. And even more than that - almost the entire knowledge base of how to build tubes "the right way" is gone. Making vacuum tubes is nontrivial, needing very specific and in-depth knowledge of glass blowing, metallurgy, vacuum technology, and more. The last of those guys were my dad's age, who died 4 years ago at 92 and, incidently, worked for Raytheon and Sylvania as an EE back in the 50s to the early 60s. |
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John Larson
From:
Pennsyltucky, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2022 7:54 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| Seems if we made electron tubes on these shores once, we can certainly do it again. Will people pay the price? Eventually. |
AFAIK due to EPA rules this is pretty much a no go. Since there isn't a "green" way to make tubes due to the electroplating and such processes involved. It's a big factor in why electronics are manufactured in China now
The guys over at Kemper and Fractal are probably salavating right about now.
_________________
Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous; praise is meet for the upright. Give praise to the Lord with the harp, chant unto Him with the ten-stringed psaltery. Sing unto Him a new song, chant well unto Him with jubilation. For the word of the Lord is true, and all His works are in faithfulness. The Lord loveth mercy and judgement; the earth is full of the mercy of the Lord.
- Psalm 33:1-5 |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 14 Mar 2022 9:01 pm
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Wait until China invades Taiwan and the majority of silicon ICs will be gone from the market.
We'll be mining 741s and 555s out of landfills. |
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Robert B Murphy
From:
Mountain View, Arkansas, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 1:45 am
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David, I too am a hoarder and salvaged a lot of other-than-6.3/12.6 filament voltage tubes, mostly from scrapped unused military equipment. I don't have many of the old 4 prong tubes, but a few. Let me know if you can't find some tube and I'll search my stuff.
Tom, yep, transistors and even dip packaged bread and butter ICs like 741s and 555s might become hard to find. A short while ago I couldn't even find TO-3 packaged 2N3055s but that seems to have eased lately. I think some semiconductor foundry saw enough of a repair business market to do a run of them.
In one of my tube manuals there is a photo of a late era tube making machine, a giant carousel complete with burners and vacuum equipment. I'll post a photo if I can find it. I can't imagine anyone being able to make tubes in todays hostile regulatory environment, what with the barium flash, lead soldered leads, and thoriated emitters used in some tubes. In any event we may see replacement tubes cost more than the amps did originally.
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Bob, small o. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 3:33 am
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| When I was a kid I lived near an RCA factory--had several family members work their entire lives there. When it closed in the late 70s, I would walk by with friends and see hundreds of boxes filled with tubes stacked at the curb for refuse every week. Of course we smashed them against the brick walls of the building! |
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Robert B Murphy
From:
Mountain View, Arkansas, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 7:12 am
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One of the problems with modern semiconductor foundries like the one proposed for Ohio is that all the high density technology is geared toward microprocessors and asics. Three lead packages and dip packed devices, which are orders of magnitude larger on the wafer, aren't even an afterthought. All modern manufacturing seems to be surface mount pick-and-place oriented which leaves those of us with a soldering iron out in the cold.
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Bob, small o. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 8:16 am
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saw online that a couple of sites that sell tubes are accepting no orders due to demand. probably busy resetting prices and trying to find out what they can get and what they cant get.
i used to do a lot of fender amp repair. guys would want a new set of tubes and didnt want the pulls from their amp. i just put them in boxes, so i have hundreds of used fender amp tubes. i never buy new tubes....just test them on my military tube tester. the majority of the USA made stuff tests good. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 8:27 am
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So do you think this will be the new toilet paper fiasco of 2020 with everybody stockpiling and hoarding them  |
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Carl Gallagher
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 8:33 am
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| Seems if we made electron tubes on these shores once, we can certainly do it again. Will people pay the price? Eventually. |
Will never happen.The tube industry was driven out of this country by environmentalists.It is a very "dirty" process to make tubes, thats why they are only produced in nations that arent concerned with the pollutants, China, Russia and Czechs.
I have never and will never use current production tubes in my amps.I started buying up old stock tubes back in the early 80's and have a good supply on hand.I rarely use them for repairs I do, but between me and my 2 sons we have about 20 amps.I have more than enough that they will never have to buy tubes for the rest of their life.I am retired and have reduced the amount of repairs I do so I dont have any worries about the tube shortages.I would assume the current shortage is more due to the supply chain issues of late and there are probably boat loads of tubes in containers offshore somewhere.Now with the Russian export ban those tube prices will skyrocket when they finally hit the docks. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 8:47 am
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We'll survive, tubes or not... Many decades ago I played in a band with another guitarist.. he was a very good player.. He played a 1958 ES 335 through a Mesa Boogie.. This is about 1978-1979.
I had a Session 400, a late model gibson SG I , and a cheap crap distortion floor pedal of some sort. We did some good live performance recordings, and when we heard the guitars he was shocked,, We could NOT tell them apart... The onstage sound was identical.. Big full, warm,
"bluesy"...All typical Gibson tone ,
and really the same exact sound, even through pro recording equipment.
He was sick because his all tube Mesa and original natural finish 1958 335 dot neck could not be distinguished in a live recording from a SS amp and a fuzz box and a common late model SG.
There will be good sounds, and fine performances, tubes or no tubes... Its not worth sweating over... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 2:25 pm
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I just dropped $$$ on new tubes today.
A quad of Tungsol RI 5881's which I have used for some time and have a lot of love for, for six string guitar. I think this was the last matched quad available in Canada... at least the only quad I could find with google.
Also took a flyer on a quad of unmatched EHX 6CA7s to try in a MusicMan 112RP sixty five. IF they don't work well there, I have a Marshall JCM800 which may like them. It needs a bit more thump.
I have enough 6L6's and EL34s but there are a lot of Russian made tubes that sound really good to me outside of those staples - and it could be a very long time before we see them again, and if New Sensor goes broke from the tarriffs, that would be a travesty for the guitar community. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 3:01 pm
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I use a few tubes in my old Silverone 1482 and all my Tube Works stuff use tubes in the preamp section. I'm not in need though as almost everything has recent units and I don't have any plans to experiment at present and I still have the original Sylvanias for the 1482.
I guess everybody saw the article mentioned as a look at tubesandmore.com shows almost everything out of stock.
I'm not going to worry about it though as there are more serious issues to be concerned about. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 4:26 pm
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
I just dropped $$$ on new tubes today.
A quad of Tungsol RI 5881's which I have used for some time and have a lot of love for, for six string guitar. I think this was the last matched quad available in Canada... at least the only quad I could find with google.
Also took a flyer on a quad of unmatched EHX 6CA7s to try in a MusicMan 112RP sixty five. IF they don't work well there, I have a Marshall JCM800 which may like them. It needs a bit more thump.
I have enough 6L6's and EL34s but there are a lot of Russian made tubes that sound really good to me outside of those staples - and it could be a very long time before we see them again, and if New Sensor goes broke from the tarriffs, that would be a travesty for the guitar community. |
I have a hotrod Champ style amp I built several years back that runs the 6V6 very hot. Red plated on about any tube but the current Tung Sol. It's a tough tube.
Pushing the amp that hard sounds great, but isn't so great on the output tube. Guess when this one goes out, I'll have to change the cathode resistor to let normal 6V6s work safely. I'll wait til then though--it sounds great.
Another almost purely Russian electronic former commodity is germanium transistors....
Dave |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 4:31 pm
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But as Jerry said, there's a lot more important stuff to worry about...
Dave |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 4:42 pm Tubes
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None of my suppliers have any tubes. And if you check eBay you can see the prices are sky high for tubes such as 6L6GC and other popular pre-amp tubes
Now I cant afford food, gas for the truck or supplies for my shop.
What a mess! Well at least no one is bombing us yet. We can be thankful for that |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 4:49 pm
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Point taken Ken. I was merely looking at the situation from a user's perspective. I hadn't considered the service and builder's industry impact.
I feel for you too as many of us will experience high costs and lack of availability for many products I fear. I'm already feeling it at the grocery and the pumps same as you. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 4:58 pm
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Maybe we can take solace in the fact that the Russian military--responsible in large part for the availability of "obsolete" parts like tubes and germanium transistors and the like has still been behind the times in technology and reliant on these in the battlefield.
Maybe what's been good for the musician has been bad for the army. We can only hope.
Dave |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 6:07 pm JJ tubes
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It’s interesting that my suppliers are out of JJ tubes. They are not made in Russia. They are made in Slovakia. It is on the western border of Ukraine
I saw a quad of JJ 6L6GC on eBay for 300.00. Pure price gouging |
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Carl Gallagher
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2022 6:49 pm Re: JJ tubes
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| Ken Fox wrote: |
It’s interesting that my suppliers are out of JJ tubes. They are not made in Russia. They are made in Slovakia. It is on the western border of Ukraine
I saw a quad of JJ 6L6GC on eBay for 300.00. Pure price gouging |
Most likely due to the supply chain issues, not Russia. |
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