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Topic: Sho~Bud 1 + 1 Changer w/ A Twist |
Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 19 Mar 2022 4:39 pm |
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Sho~Bud Fans
I have stumbled across a square front Pro II with an interesting changer. It was bought from the original owner and never modified.
It has what appears to be a 1 up, 1 down, changer with the 4th and 5th E9th finger being 2 raise. It uses nylon tuners and locked 2 hole pullers.
I believe this is similar to what Ricky Davis said Lloyd Greens #1 LDG had installed as well.
Just curious how many changers like this are around. It does sound great.
Here is the Bud...
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2022 7:56 pm
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That was a fairly common mod... They just replace the 4th and 5th string 1+1 changer finger with a later 2+1 finger... I think it was straight swap situation but Ricky would know better, perhaps some minor tweaks needed to be made. Back in the day, copendents were not loaded like they are today, and once you could raise the high E and B strings twice, you could do away with the racks and brass tuning barrels, use smooth, reliable, stable, 2 hole pullers, and save a lot of weight and noise, and I have seen a few set up this way... Could NOT have been a cheap proposition however, even years ago.
I have seen variations as well such as keeping the racks, barrels and allen tuners on all strings except 4 and 5... In any case, I have seen this mod several times.. One thing baffles me however. I thought that the 1+1 changer setup was gone by the time Bud went to the square front body.. Ricky probably can answer that one... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 3:53 am
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Well stated Bob, thanks!
Here is a photo of both changers, showing the pins for the strings, and 2 hole raise finger for string 4 on the C6th.
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 4:59 am
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Are all the pullers on the guitar 2 hole?
Wonder if by some chance this guitar came from the factory like this??.. I am sure Sho Bud would have built one like this if it was ordered... Ricky, where are you?
Mike, any chance of an undercarriage pic??.... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 6:12 am
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Yes this was Sho~bud's idea to go without Barrels and fix the rod to the puller and fine tune with Nylon tuner at endplate. Normal set up at the time was you only raised the 4th and 5th string twice on E9; so those fingers were the original single/single with pin on the best 6061 aluminum finger top ; but that is a extra "welded" raise hole on that 4th and 5th string finger and 4th string finger on C6. This happened right about the end of the first year of LDG ("May '73 to May '74) so late 1974 and with this new tuning mechanism went into the new model called "The Pro~II Custom"(and the other models being made) .
My LDG is ALL Barrel tuning. So was Lloyd's originally; but knowing Lloyd is to know he likes things to act and react a certain way; so different changes came to his LDG(which is a whole nother thread...ha.)all within first couple months of his taking on the new LDG.
Then not long after welding on a extra raise hole; then they designed the new double raise/single lower finger; same horizontally pivoting raise and lower arms; but now welded to a new design finger-top with a groove to hook string; but now they can "cast a lot of them" with new machine and they used pot metal pour and chrome plated....and SOUND CHANGED....yikes.
...then on from there
Questions??
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 6:23 am
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OH yes Bob C. all the pullers are same round crossbar two hole pullers with Brass rollers; but a "tapped" set screw to now "Fix" the rod to the roller/puller.
So it's still the same pulling system of Barrel tuning "Pro~II" but fixed rod and nylon tuning system; then smaller square front body and called: "THE PRO~II CUSTOM".
and soon came the narrow/slick pedals later 1975 and new dustcatcher 3D fretboard starting in late '74 into '75.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 7:18 am
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Thanks Ricky for "the rest of the story"
I kinda like the system, as it still retains the aluminum machined changer caps, and the tone that goes along with them...  |
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Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 9:36 am
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Here's an endplate pic of my Pro II built 11/13/73. Originally with barrels, Duane Marrs converted it to the nylon tuners on locking brass rollers. I had sent the guitar back to have a vertical lever installed when the guitar was barely a year old. Duane asked if I wanted an "upgrade" while the guitar was there. He said all new guitars built from that point forward would have this setup. I don't recall him mentioning the Pro III name. According to my pal Ricky Davis, I had committed a mortal sin by allowing this to happen!  A few years ago after giving my guitar a refresh, he did assure me not any of the critical parts were altered!
This pic is my '74 Pro I that was completely "modded" by James Morehead with Ricky's input. It has the original fingers with same type mod but uses barrels. Note that the 10th string is also double raise. Ricky might know why it was done that way.
You may have noticed the single nylon tuner on the 1st string...After I aqquired the guitar a few months ago, I switched the pulls on L-L & R-L and had a clearance problem that required me to do this -
_________________
Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..."
Last edited by Kenny Davis on 20 Mar 2022 11:52 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 10:12 am
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[quote="Ricky Davis"]Yes this was Sho~bud's idea to go without Barrels and fix the rod to the puller and fine tune with Nylon tuner at endplate. Normal set up at the time was you only raised the 4th and 5th string twice on E9; so those fingers were the original single/single with pin on the best 6061 aluminum finger top ; but that is a extra "welded" raise hole on that 4th and 5th string finger and 4th string finger on C6. This happened right about the end of the first year of LDG ("May '73 to May '74) so late 1974 and with this new tuning mechanism went into the new model called "The Pro~II Custom"(and the other models being made) .
My LDG is ALL Barrel tuning. So was Lloyd's originally; but knowing Lloyd is to know he likes things to act and react a certain way; so different changes came to his LDG(which is a whole nother thread...ha.)all within first couple months of his taking on the new LDG.
Then not long after welding on a extra raise hole; then they designed the new double raise/single lower finger; same horizontally pivoting raise and lower arms; but now welded to a new design finger-top with a groove to hook string; but now they can "cast a lot of them" with new machine and they used pot metal pour and chrome plated....and SOUND CHANGED....yikes.
...then on from there
Questions??
Ricky[/quote
Ricky.. thanks for the info.. Now, I KNOW I have seen a few that were original 1&1 changers, that still used brass tuning barrels and allen head rods, but had 2&1 fingers on strings 4&5, and used nylon tuners and fixed 2 hole pullers on those fingers.. Was that simply a matter of putting the 2&1 fingers on stings 4 and 5, or was some other mods needed. I always thought it was a drop in mod, but am not 100% sure... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 12:54 pm
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Yeah Bob that may of been just a matter of not wanting to tap more set screws in rollers to fix rod and put nylon tuner on it....ha...or they liked barrel tuning but didn't want to have two barrels on ONE rod anymore. Remember; Sho~bud was totally a "CUSTOM" shop and they would customize any shobud the way you wanted it with what all options they had at the time.> NOTE: I've seen RACK AND BARREL Shobud's built in 1975 when there has already been 3 mech changes; but customer wanted NEW RACK AND BARREL...ah..ha......so be it.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
Last edited by Ricky Davis on 20 Mar 2022 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 12:57 pm
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Mike DiAlesandro - Out of curiosity, what is the set-up on the E9th neck? It looks a little unusual...maybe it was an original 2 knee lever guitar? The 4th position shows one raise that I assume would be the floor pedal change, but the 8th shows a raise as well. Would someone just raise the 8th alone? Maybe someone removed the E-F on 4? - Just wondering!
_________________
Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..." |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 1:03 pm
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| Kenny Davis wrote: |
| Mike DiAlesandro - Out of curiosity, what is the set-up on the E9th neck? It looks a little unusual...maybe it was an original 2 knee lever guitar? The 4th position shows one raise that I assume would be the floor pedal change, but the 8th shows a raise as well. Would someone just raise the 8th alone? Maybe someone removed the E-F on 4? - Just wondering! |
Kenny you are correct. It is a 2 knee lever guitar, RKL lowers 4 and 8, and LKL raises 8 to F and lowers 2 to D.
I have seen this change before on a later 79 Pro I with 2 knees also. I guess Sho~Bud was trying to get the most versatility out of the 2 levers? |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 1:05 pm
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| Quote: |
| This pic is my '74 Pro I that was completely "modded" by James Morehead with Ricky's input. It has the original fingers with same type mod but uses barrels. Note that the 10th string is also double raise. Ricky might know why it was done that way. |
Sorry Kenny, I don't Remember or know that answer.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
Last edited by Ricky Davis on 20 Mar 2022 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 20 Mar 2022 1:20 pm
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Mike - Thanks! That 4th string E-F is just a short bell crank, rod, etc. away!
Ricky - I understand Brother.
_________________
Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..." |
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