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Topic: Some steel guitars are better for harmonics than others? |
Mike A Holland
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 28 Feb 2022 6:53 am |
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The first steel guitar I bought 6/7 years ago was a little red Jedson copy of a Fender Deluxe. This guitar always sounded great to me. It has a great tone, apart from the fact that it is not easy to play harmonics on this instrument. Because this was the only steel guitar I had for a year or two and I was just learning I would practice harmonics and was really frustrated with my lack of ability to conquer this technique. Sleepwalk turned into a nightmare of thunks and plinks as I tried manfully to address this issue that was blighting my lap steel world. I was an accomplished guitar player and teacher and had enough insight to self progress on most instruments. Apart from HARMONICS!!!!!!
About 4 years ago I decided to buy the little black Epiphone Century reissue just to play totally lap style. Apart from the very poor pickup which I replaced this was an OK instrument for a budget steel guitar. I immediately replaced the pickup and this guitar turned out to be a very nice little guitar.
What I noticed straight away when I received this instrument was how good the harmonics are. They just jump out off the guitar everywhere..... an absolute joy. I think I spent the first day with a silly grin just playing harmonics.......... because for the first time in my life I could  !
Back to the Jedson. I have improved my playing and can get harmonics in certain places but you have to be so precise. Not only that but they are quieter and do not sustain in the same way as other steels I have played including the little black Epiphone. There is a lot of wood cut away behind the bridge and pickup assembly plate on the Jedson and thought this might have something to do with loss of harmonic quality within the guitar. Having said this then I assume all fender deluxes would have the same issue and I am sure they do not!
Does anybody else have this experience of a certain steel guitar that will not play harmonics as well as other instruments? |
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Lee Gauthier
From:
Victoria, BC, Canada
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Posted 28 Feb 2022 8:50 am
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| Do you notice the difference when you play acoustically? How does the pickup location on the two instruments compare? On my multi-pickup guitars some pickups and combinations seem to let the harmonics sing, and others choke them off almost completely. I definitely notice a difference between my instruments when playing harmonics, but I feel like it's less pronounced when they aren't plugged in. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2022 9:20 am
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I have an ugly little rescue Ric 100 that I purchased as a stripped-out plank...
...and installed a hodge-podge of fittings to make playable.
The harmonics just fly off that thing, and I'm at a loss to explain why. But they do. It's my dedicated Sleepwalk guitar. |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2022 6:15 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
I have an ugly little rescue Ric 100 that I purchased as a stripped-out plank...
...and installed a hodge-podge of fittings to make playable.
The harmonics just fly off that thing, and I'm at a loss to explain why. But they do. It's my dedicated Sleepwalk guitar. |
Good god man, i thought i was bad about rescue projects!😉
I like it! |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2022 10:30 pm
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I had a Guyatone that string one was dead as a doornail. No sustain at all. The problem was a ground wire between the bridge and body that was lifting the bridge off the body at that end. Moved the wire to a different location, screwed the bridge down tight and that fixed it.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=147757&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=250
Edit: Sorry, you'll have to scroll 3/4 down the page to see the post I linked above to show the bridge flaw. I don't know how to link an individual post. |
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John Larson
From:
Pennsyltucky, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2022 10:34 pm
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It has to do with the placement of the pickup relative to the harmonic nodes of vibration.
_________________
Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous; praise is meet for the upright. Give praise to the Lord with the harp, chant unto Him with the ten-stringed psaltery. Sing unto Him a new song, chant well unto Him with jubilation. For the word of the Lord is true, and all His works are in faithfulness. The Lord loveth mercy and judgement; the earth is full of the mercy of the Lord.
- Psalm 33:1-5 |
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Stewart Campbell
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 4:01 am Ease of playing harmonics on steel guitar.
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| I have had the same experience as Mike regarding playing harmonics on several steels. My herd consists of two 8 string consuls ,3 lap steels (all home built) and one Airline reissue. The materials used on the home built are mahogany and beech. The consuls are fitted with Lollar Gibson pickups and one of the laps fitted with a JAG blade pickup. All sound great ,but only one consul and the lap with the blade pickup play harmonics with ease , and what I have noticed is different on these two is the break angle of the strings at bridge and nut is more acute which may account for better harmonics. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 6:47 am
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| This is only conjecture on my behalf, but I believe a contributing factor in why my little rescue 100-series Rickenbacker has such strong harmonics may be the severe break angle of the strings over the bridge, and the string-through-body anchoring. As John suggests, the pickup placement may also come into play, which was basically a happy accident. |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 7:07 am
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Jack, what exactly is that finish on your Ric?
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 7:14 am
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| Bill Groner wrote: |
| Jack, what exactly is that finish on your Ric? |
I have no clue, Bill. But I'm reasonably certain it's a factory finish; I've seen photos of several others in the 100-series with similar paint. It's butt-ugly, for sure. Reminds me of the trunk paint in a '59 Rambler my dad had when I was a kid, minus the rust holes. |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 7:55 am
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LOL..........I thought maybe it was a barn find........you know, below the rafters where the Pigeons roost......
Hey, as long as it sounds nice that's the main objective.
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Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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Mike A Holland
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 8:00 am
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| Some really interesting comments. It never occurred to me that the pickup position would have any bearing on how the harmonics are produced with respect to playing palm harmonics. I just assumed it was all about the mechanical side of the guitar not the electrical side. I tried the Jedson acoustically and it does not appear to be any different. One thing I have noticed is the top string E is a little quieter than the others when amplified. Not a lot but slightly noticeable as you play it. Of course the top string is the main string for playing harmonics. I have tightened all the screws around the pickup/bridge plate. That may have improved the situation...difficult to tell but still not a harmonic popping beast. |
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Steffen Gunter
From:
Munich, Germany
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Posted 2 Mar 2022 1:08 am
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The top E string is a bit quieter on all of my steel guitars, even the Clinesmith.
One thing I once read about weak harmonics was the PU height. If the magnet is too close to the string it could weaken the minimal movement of the string when playing harmonics. I tried this with my Stringmaster because I had the PU really close and my impression was that it got better after screwing the PU down a bit.
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My YT channel: www.youtube.com/user/madsteffen |
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Robert B Murphy
From:
Mountain View, Arkansas, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2022 2:27 am
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Where was that guitar when the @#$! hit the fan?
I bet the top string quietness has to do with the string gauge. The more steel cutting through more of the magnetic field above the pickup, the greater the induced voltage.
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Bob, small o.
Last edited by Robert B Murphy on 2 Mar 2022 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 2 Mar 2022 2:38 am
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| Bill Sinclair wrote: |
| I don't know how to link an individual post. |
you can right click on the little folded page icon between poster's name and "Posted 28 Feb" to link one post out of thread
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- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2022 7:45 am
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| John Larson wrote: |
| It has to do with the placement of the pickup relative to the harmonic nodes of vibration. |
But isn't that node going to change with the pitch when you move the bar? I'm sure what you're describing has an effect on optimal pickup placement but I'm not sure how you'd chase that moving target based on vibration nodes. Perhaps luthiers come up with a compromise based on the most frequented frets? I would expect the same principle affects sound hole location on acoustic guitars. Is that one reason why open chords sound so much more full and lively than barre chords? Sorry if I'm rehashing stuff that is basic to most of you, I'm just curious. |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2022 7:56 am
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| Gene Tani wrote: |
| Bill Sinclair wrote: |
| I don't know how to link an individual post. |
you can right click on the little folded page icon between poster's name and "Posted 28 Feb" to link one post out of thread |
Thanks Gene, I'll try that next time. In the meantime, I located the picture showing how the ground wire placement was affecting my bridge and killing the sustain on string 1.
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Robert B Murphy
From:
Mountain View, Arkansas, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2022 9:32 am
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Open chords give more room for the strings to travel. Just as an rough experiment I measured the max travel I could get on a .056" 25.5" scale string tuned to E at .225". When I fretted it at the fifth fret the max was down to .125". That was measured at the octave but the difference would also be seen at the pickup. The pickup's field, or the flux lines if you prefer, being sort of concentric circles around the bar magnet are concentrated by the pole pieces so the string creates the most voltage directly over it but there is a pretty fair distance of lateral sensitivity. The point I'm trying to make is that even if the is a dead spot by having a node dead center over the pole piece, there is still plenty of moving string to cut the field. Want more volume on a regular guitar? Try picking closer to the end of the fretboard like all the old big band archtop acoustic players did.
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Bob, small o. |
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Brian Rung
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 10:10 pm
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Picked up a Magnatone Troubadour S8 last week. Harmonics/chimes are nearly effortless on this thing. They just kind of happen. I’m still relatively new to non-pedal guitars, but i find that my overall playing, including palm harmonics/chimes are better on lap guitars than console guitars.
This new Maggie is the most “Hawaiian” sounding guitar that I’ve owned. It’s hard to put it down.
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Aspiring Hawaiian. |
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