Gauge Change Issues

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

I have a GFI Ultra S10 Keyless

I wanted to try the Jagwire Lloyd Green Stings that have a wound 6th (G#) (and other gauge changes) and now I cant tune properly the RKL which should lower the 6th a full step from G# to F#.

I went to the outer-most hole on the bellcrank (furthest from the axle) but still cant get a full step drop, (only getting 1/2 step)

The changer has 2 lowers (holes) and I tried swapping the rod from the top hole to the bottom hole, still no dice.

Am I overlooking something here? Everything else was easily tunable

Thanks
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Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

You need to increase the travel of the lever. Maybe a lot. Find the lever stop and adjust it there.
The 6th string plain-to-wound change is the most consequential thing you can do to your setup. The changes required underneath are not trivial.

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Is your guitar equipped with a 6 hole or 7 hole Bell Crank for that pull?

Check under the guitar, If that pull only has a 6 hole BC And their is a 7 hole BC not using the 7th hole you may want to switch them.

Check both the beginning stop screw, And lever stop screw for proper travel. If the beginning stop needs moved, Then you may have to shorten the pull rod a little, At the brass rod connector at the bell crank. A 1/4" wrench and proper hex wrench is all the tools needed for both knee lever stops.

Good Luck making your guitar happy, Then you will be Happy Steelin.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Another tip: make sure the raise lever for that string isn't moving when you're activating the lower! On some guitars, that can cause this problem.

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

I have that string-set on my Ultra, and unless they have changed something in later years; the GFI Ultra Keyless can lower the Jagwire L.G. series wound 6th string to F#, with split-rod to G, just fine. However, it is right at the edge of what the GFI changer can handle.

Lowest hole on changer and bellcrank (furthest from axles), adjust for a little more lever movement, and the lower-return spring had to be turned upside-down to prevent it from scraping on the lower-scissor during lower-action.

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

The GFI must have an extra pull-rod in upper hole on changer (raise) and bellcrank, to raise the fully lowered 6th string ever so slightly – the "old" way for tuning splits.
This extra rod allow the split between fully lowered lever and the B-pedal to be tuned to land exactly at a well-tuned G note. This extra rod is needed for both plain and wound 6th string and was missing on mine, so I bought some extra parts for it and other splits.

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

What Donny said above is important and relates to the question you asked in your other thread about return springs. If the lower return spring is too tight it can cause this problem. Excessive spring tension on the lower can cause the rod/tuning nut to act as a fulcrum and lift the raise scissor too when the lower is engaged, thus defeating the action of the lower to some extent. This also creates an unstable tuning situation, even if you do manage to get the full whole step lower. The opposite scissor must always remain against the stop for pulls in either direction.
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All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

The .022 wound string only has a .010 to .012 core and will need more travel for a full tone lower than a .013 1st string F# to G# raise.

The added problem, Is when you changed the pull on what you call the 1st BC (That controls the Cross Rod hooked to the KL). Move the rod from the 7th hole, Back to original 5th hole, This will give more rotation to the cross rod and more travel to the 6th string BC.
Moving the rod 1st BC, By Passed the KL stops.

Next Loosen the nylon tuning nut on the 1st string pull.
Now concentrate on the 6th string lower alone. If the 6th string will not lower from G# to F# using the KL stops, GO BACK TO 1st BELL CRANK AN MOVE the rod from the lever down to the 4th hole from the cross rod. Then go back to the KL stops and adjust to the F# Lower.

When you get the 6th string adjusted to the F# lower, Then go back to the 1st string and it will tune between the KL stops set for the 6th string.

Good Luck ruling the Mechanical Monster.
P.S. If this doesn't get the guitar right, Send me a private message with a phone number and time and I will call you. bj

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Remember that you can check what the changer can do without going to all the trouble of moving pullers and installing pull rods. Just push on the rasie bar or lower bar (with a screwdriver or whatever) and watch what happens.

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

The GFI Ultra S10 Keyless can handle the 6th in this set…

… down to F# and that little extra that allow for the split-rod for tuning the G. However, as I have mentioned earlier; it is at the very edge of what the GFI changer can handle. Others have failed to make it work before, so it is that tight.

It may not even be a good idea to put a wound 6th on a GFI keyless, as one will experience hysteresis with it.

Duane Dunard · From: Troy, MO. U.S.A.

I had several guitars that had that issue, and was able to correct it by removing it’s tiny raise helper spring, which allowed the lower finger to move much further without pulling the raise finger along with it. However, I still had to increase the lever travel.

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