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Topic: Best material for Tricone gaskets? |
Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2022 11:25 pm |
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I need to replace all of the gaskets in my newly acquired Tricone. Is there a consensus on what material is best to use? Is actual automotive gasket paper a good option? Or, some sort of card stock?
Thanks for your input,
Ryan |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2022 6:45 pm
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Yes. The original gaskets have basically disintegrated. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 2:59 am
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Most of the tricones I've had have been gasketless--some with original cones and some not. But if replacing, I think automotive paper gasket material (fairly thin) should work well.
The worst I've ever seen was a Style O that I got years ago. It had apparently been buzzing pretty bad, and the previous owner had used that comes-from-a-tube blue form-a-gasket stuff. It didn't rattle. Dang near never got the cone out to be able to clean that stuff off...
Dave |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 3:17 am
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| David Ball wrote: |
Most of the tricones I've had have been gasketless--some with original cones and some not. But if replacing, I think automotive paper gasket material (fairly thin) should work well.
The worst I've ever seen was a Style O that I got years ago. It had apparently been buzzing pretty bad, and the previous owner had used that comes-from-a-tube blue form-a-gasket stuff. It didn't rattle. Dang near never got the cone out to be able to clean that stuff off...
Dave |
That’s an inherent issue when buying vintage Nationals. People are very inventive when trying to combat rattling or buzzing. Someone glued the bridge to the cones in my Tricone! I’ve seen so many hack repair jobs on Nationals throughout the years. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 4:49 am
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| I replaced the gaskets on one. After looking at the original, which had strips of thick paper, the closest I could come up with was card stock. I cut it into similar strips and it worked very well. |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 4:54 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| I replaced the gaskets on one. After looking at the original, which had strips of thick paper, the closest I could come up with was card stock. I cut it into similar strips and it worked very well. |
I just ordered some 1/64” gasket paper. And, I have a circle cutter.
Did you glue your gaskets down? If so, what kind of glue did you use? I was thinking of using some hide glue. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 5:01 am
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| I don’t recall using glue. I probably didn’t. I don’t think you’d want anything but a residue-free, smooth surface. |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 7:47 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| I don’t recall using glue. I probably didn’t. I don’t think you’d want anything but a residue-free, smooth surface. |
They were originally installed with hide glue.
I’ve noticed many have used Elmers white school glue. Or, a glue stick. I was just thinking that if need be, the hide glue would be easier to remove. I just don’t have any on hand at the moment.
So, you’ve had no issues with non glued gaskets sliding around?
This is what mine looked like after I scraped out what was left of the deteriorated gaskets! The glue had been applied liberally!:
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Chris Clem
From:
California, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 8:38 am
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| I think most Tricone players would say they sound better without the gaskets. I personally would not put them in. The excess hide glue on your guitar was most likely not from the factory, someone else did that.As a luthier myself the way to remove hide glue is with a rag and hot water, might won't to leave the hot rag on the glue for a minute of so to soften the glue.It will come off pretty easily, some times I will poke at it with a Popsicle stick or any wood pieces you may have around. They won't scratch the metal. |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 8:58 am
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| Chris Clem wrote: |
| I think most Tricone players would say they sound better without the gaskets. I personally would not put them in. The excess hide glue on your guitar was most likely not from the factory, someone else did that.As a luthier myself the way to remove hide glue is with a rag and hot water, might won't to leave the hot rag on the glue for a minute of so to soften the glue.It will come off pretty easily, some times I will poke at it with a Popsicle stick or any wood pieces you may have around. They won't scratch the metal. |
That’s interesting. I have heard the opposite. The majority of Tricone players that I have spoken with seem to prefer the tone when gaskets are installed. They are easy enough to swap in and out. So, I’ll give them a go. Beside the rattling and buzzing, this guitar actually sounded great. It had a real nice warm and sweet tone with great sustain. Only problem is that it rattled and buzzed like crazy!
You may be right about the excess hide glue not being from the factory. But, I have seen other vintage Tricones that were supposedly never molested that also sported excess glue.
Thanks for the tips. I’ve actually worked with hide glue for years. And, I have already removed it from this guitar.
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2022 1:37 pm
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I made some gaskets today and decided that I’d like to tack them down. Seems about half the people that I have spoken with glue them down. And, half don’t. So, anyway, I mixed up some hide glue and glued them down. The new cones should be here by Saturday. So, I’ll hopefully be able to hear the guitar in action this weekend. Then, I’ll have to drop it off to have a new nut made.
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 9 Feb 2022 2:04 pm
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Not cone related, but Ryan's pictures reminded me of something inside #201--the support legs on Ryan's look like the ones I've seen inside most Nationals. #201 still has the soldered strips and a wooden soundwell. The flanges that hold the soundwell supports appear to be metal and soldered in place with a dowel (or maybe metal tube--I'm not sure) sitting in it and fitting under the soundwell. Has anyone else seen this arrangement before? It appears to be original, and I'm wondering if all the early ones were made this way.
This one had no gaskets, but it has a wooden soundwell.
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2022 2:13 pm
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| Sebastian Müller wrote: |
| Great job Ryan, looks very clean ! |
Thanks Sebastian! |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2022 2:17 pm
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| David Ball wrote: |
Not cone related, but Ryan's pictures reminded me of something inside #201--the support legs on Ryan's look like the ones I've seen inside most Nationals. #201 still has the soldered strips and a wooden soundwell. The flanges that hold the soundwell supports appear to be metal and soldered in place with a dowel (or maybe metal tube--I'm not sure) sitting in it and fitting under the soundwell. Has anyone else seen this arrangement before? It appears to be original, and I'm wondering if all the early ones were made this way.
This one had no gaskets, but it has a wooden soundwell.
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I am a sucker for the unadorned style of Style 1’s. But that is one beautiful guitar that you have there! |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 9 Feb 2022 2:24 pm
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It's a strange one. Engraved in an extremely non-standard pattern, but looks amazingly like some of the engraved banjos that Rudy made in the 60's. There has been considerable debate over whether the engraving was original to the instrument or added later. Who knows? It's in Mark Makin's book for what it's worth.
Great guitar though. I sent it to National to get some seams resoldered and stuff a decade or so ago. They refinished the peghead (which sort of upset me to be honest), but it's a good one. The one National Tricone that I kept.
Dave |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2022 3:04 pm
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| On the other end of the spectrum, I opened up a Chinese-made Johnson tricone to install a pickup jack. The cover plated had been gasketed with multiple layers of masking tape, and as far as I could tell it was doing the job. |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2022 3:22 pm
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| D Schubert wrote: |
| On the other end of the spectrum, I opened up a Chinese-made Johnson tricone to install a pickup jack. The cover plated had been gasketed with multiple layers of masking tape, and as far as I could tell it was doing the job. |
I’ve opened a number of Nationals with masking tape cover plate gaskets as well. |
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Ryan Matzen
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2022 3:25 pm
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| David Ball wrote: |
It's a strange one. Engraved in an extremely non-standard pattern, but looks amazingly like some of the engraved banjos that Rudy made in the 60's. There has been considerable debate over whether the engraving was original to the instrument or added later. Who knows? It's in Mark Makin's book for what it's worth.
Great guitar though. I sent it to National to get some seams resoldered and stuff a decade or so ago. They refinished the peghead (which sort of upset me to be honest), but it's a good one. The one National Tricone that I kept.
Dave |
That’s cool. I really need to get a copy of that book sometime soon. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 9 Feb 2022 3:27 pm
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It's a great book (if you like Nationals that is...)--all aristic renditions of classic instruments, but they look like photos. I've been obsessed with National, both acoustic and electric, for years. Very cool book indeed.
Dave |
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