String 6B goes 7 cents flat with C pedal

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Doing a common B+C combination on E9, string 6 drops about 7 cents flat from B alone, which puts it noticeably out of tune with strings 8-5-4(C). Strings 3B and 11B only drop about 2 cents, so 6B is out with them too.

I did try disengaging string 8 from the C pedal to lessen cabinet drop. No difference.

Strings are SIT bulk, well broken in but not old.

Any suggestions?

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

Wound or plain string? Plain will tend to drop more than wound. Some guitars just drop more than others, usually not much you can do to change that. I know your question is about the one specific string, but in general, pedals closer to the middle of the guitar will tend to cause more drop than those nearer the end. I'm assuming the drop is less pronounced with the A-B combination, does it still register a similar difference between the three strings?
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All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Thanks Ian.
Plain 6th string, .020 (to accommodate a Franklin change)
The drop is negligible for AB.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

A 12-string will tend to have a little more drop than a 10-string of the same model/brand. Or so says the Forum.

Assuming your pedals are in Emmons order, to tests what Ian was talking about with 'middle pedals causing more drop,' unscrew the C-pedal's 4th string nylon nut to mimic the A-pedal (and maybe put the 8th string back on the C-pedal to somewhat mimic the force of the low B string on the A-pedal). Now you have two A pedals, or close to that, at least tension-wise... just in different locations as to where they connect to the cabinet.

Then hit BC. Does this still cause 6B to drop far more than AB? If so, the difference is the effect of a pedal pulling down closer to the middle of the cabinet having more detuning effect than one closer to the end of the cabinet.

If that's the case, on most all-pulls you can still get the whole-tone lower of the Franklin change on string 6 using a wound string. I use a 22w.

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

A compensator rod would fix that :-}
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14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

All good suggestions above. Another way to check if it's the downforce causing the problem is to operate the pedal as if it were a lever, and this is easily done with a crescent (adjustable) wrench. If the cross shafts are square, just put the wrench on the cross shaft. And if the shafts are round, just put the wrench on a puller. This allows you to activate the pedal with a horizontal force, instead of pulling down.

But two other things come to mind. First, make sure the problem strings are "seated" properly on the nut. Do this by pressing down hard on the strings in front of, and immediately behind the nut with your thumb. (This will eliminate the "arch" of the string at the point of contact). Second, make sure there are no loose screws on the changer, nut, and key head. Any movement of these parts can also cause string drop.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Okay! Thanks everybody. I have some work cut out for me.
What about disconnecting a raise helper spring?

Jerry Jones · From: Franklin, Tenn.

I don’t think a compensator rod will work in this case unless you’re ok with a full 6th string pull connected to the C pedal. You can’t use the C pedal to correct the 6th string a few cents at the end of the C pedal stroke without pulling the full G# to A.
My solution was to tune the C pedal to the engaged B pedal.
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Jerry Jones

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

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