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Topic: Peterson Sweetners |
John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2022 8:39 pm |
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Guys, attached is the list of PSG Sweeteners in my Stroboplus HD.
There are several options for E9 guitars.
Am I correct in assuming I would use SE9 for open strings and SP9 for pedals and levers?
If so, is this really beneficial to use the sweeteners rather than simple pitch tuning?
I note there are Emmons specific tunings included in the list. Is there a reason for that?
(I play S10 GFI)
Do you use any of the other sweeteners instead for your E9 guitars?
Thanks,
John in Ohio
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Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2022 9:36 pm Re: Peterson Sweetners
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| John Booth wrote: |
Guys, attached is the list of PSG Sweeteners in my Stroboplus HD.
There are several options for E9 guitars.
Am I correct in assuming I would use SE9 for open strings and SP9 for pedals and levers? |
That is correct. It's probably because the pedaled F# note on the 4th string is usually tuned flatter than the 1st string F#.
| Quote: |
| If so, is this really beneficial to use the sweeteners rather than simple pitch tuning? |
If by "simple pitch" you mean equal temperament, a pedal steel can sound so much better than that.
| Quote: |
I note there are Emmons specific tunings included in the list. Is there a reason for that?
(I play S10 GFI) |
I assume it's because the Emmons company published tuning offsets in their literature. Those offsets are used by many players. They supposedly reflect the amount of cabinet drop on Emmons D-10 guitars. I doubt that they would be as accurate on a GFI S-10.
| Quote: |
| Do you use any of the other sweeteners instead for your E9 guitars? |
Under "Resources / User Trading Post" on the Peterson web site there are 54 steel guitar sweeteners listed, including several by yours truly. MA9 by Mickey Adams is the most popular by far.
By the way, "sweetener" is a word that Peterson uses instead of the correct musical term, "temperament". Apparently they thought it would sell better. While it is descriptive, I sort of cringe a little whenever I see it. Sweeteners are for coffee. 
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 2:41 am
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Well put, Bob. I agree with your assessment of the term sweetener.
I have the strobostomp and it's U12 temperament setting is spot on for my Infinity Universal single 12 which I find a little surprising as I assume different brands of guitars exhibit more or less cabinet drop.
You 10 string E9 guys are fortunate to have so many to choose from. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 3:14 am
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My "JE9" is also available for download. It contains both the SE9 and SP9 plus a couple of changes that were not popular when Newman developed his chart such as raising first string a full tone. JKL is also needed for the 4th string F# raise and the 4th string lower to D#. These two are already listed with different offsets in JE9. Not a big deal as once set they rarely needed readjusted.
I also have JC6 (Newman sweetened C6) which combines the opens and pedals, except 3rd string lower into one program. The 3rd string lower is in the JKL.
The newer StrobOPlus HD and new HD-C can handle the changes in my JKL combined into the basic tuning program (e.g. JE9) but I find it confusing so I stay with the separate JKL.
I've "shared" (as Peterson calls it) my programs with close to 50 people. Don't know how many times its actually been downloaded. |
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Kelcey ONeil
From:
Sevierville, TN
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 6:45 am
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Not to hijack this post at all, but I experienced straight up 440 tuned playing SOUND in tune for the first time last week. Danny Muhammad does this, and it sounds out of tune until he begins to play, then everything sounds in tune... everywhere! I gather the technique is different than what most folks are used to, but it seems like he had far less trouble with different inversions being in tune with each other with temper tuning, plus if it worked for Buddy maybe there's something to it....
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Co-owner and operator: Emmons Guitar Co. |
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Jerry Kippola
From:
UP Michigan, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 9:33 am
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| I found the EM9 tuning to be not perfect for my 68 Emmons D10, nor my Zum D10, they were close, but the EP9 tuner was quite far off for both steels, as expected. Every steel has unique cab drop, can this tuner be programmed for personal settings?---that would solve most issues, outside of string anomalies. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 10:01 am
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| Jerry Kippola wrote: |
| I found the EM9 tuning to be not perfect for my 68 Emmons D10, nor my Zum D10, they were close, but the EP9 tuner was quite far off for both steels, as expected. Every steel has unique cab drop, can this tuner be programmed for personal settings?---that would solve most issues, outside of string anomalies. |
I think that you have to do it at the web site, then download it into your tuner. That's how I did mine. Not ideal.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 10:14 am Re: Peterson Sweetners
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| b0b wrote: |
| John Booth wrote: |
Guys, attached is the list of PSG Sweeteners in my Stroboplus HD.
There are several options for E9 guitars.
Am I correct in assuming I would use SE9 for open strings and SP9 for pedals and levers? |
That is correct. It's probably because the pedaled F# note on the 4th string is usually tuned flatter than the 1st string F#.
| Quote: |
| If so, is this really beneficial to use the sweeteners rather than simple pitch tuning? |
If by "simple pitch" you mean equal temperament, a pedal steel can sound so much better than that.
| Quote: |
I note there are Emmons specific tunings included in the list. Is there a reason for that?
(I play S10 GFI) |
I assume it's because the Emmons company published tuning offsets in their literature. Those offsets are used by many players. They supposedly reflect the amount of cabinet drop on Emmons D-10 guitars. I doubt that they would be as accurate on a GFI S-10.
| Quote: |
| Do you use any of the other sweeteners instead for your E9 guitars? |
Under "Resources / User Trading Post" on the Peterson web site there are 54 steel guitar sweeteners listed, including several by yours truly. MA9 by Mickey Adams is the most popular by far.
By the way, "sweetener" is a word that Peterson uses instead of the correct musical term, "temperament". Apparently they thought it would sell better. While it is descriptive, I sort of cringe a little whenever I see it. Sweeteners are for coffee. |
bOb,
I'm very glad you answered this. You give excellent and detailed responses and I for one really appreciate it. LOL I agree "Sweeteners" does not seem a very technical descriptor. What I gleen from your reply is that I should try the sweeteners but that different ones might work better for different guitars.
Thanks bOb for the time and the expertise you put into this response.
Thanks,
John - Ohio
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 12:25 pm
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Zum Encore: anybody have preferred Peterson settings for E9 ?
Thanks b0b for the explanation. I always thought that the βsweetenersβ were technique/personality related , and never realized that, though named after the players, they were possibly the result of the instruments that they played.
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A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 1:28 pm
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| I've used my sweeteners (as previously noted the Newman's) on a D-10 Franklin, a D-10 GFI Ultra and now on my new GFI S-10 with Pad Ultra keyless. |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 1:42 pm
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this is the website page where you configure the presets/sweeteners/guided tunings (not sure what the difference between those). (If you plug the tuner in and computer or Peterson website doesn't recognize it, try a different USB cable, only one of the 3 USB cables I have works.)
On the left are 20 standard/builtin presets SE9/SP9 etc, on the right User Trading Post is where Jack, b0b etc uploaded tunings are, there are 54!! (I've used Sid Hudson's, need to explore what else is out there). You can also update firmware and check if memory is enough.
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- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 2 Jan 2022 4:14 pm
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| Brooks Montgomery wrote: |
| I always thought that the βsweetenersβ were technique/personality related , and never realized that, though named after the players, they were possibly the result of the instruments that they played. |
While cabinet drop on each instrument is a factor, so is the ear of the individual player. The rest of the band is going to be tuned "straight up" on a tuner (aka Equal Temperament or ET) Most players find that their steels sound more in tune to themselves when they're using Just Intonation (JI). But JI involves detuning some strings by as much as 20 cents or more from ET. I think the so called "sweeteners" are a compromise trying to strike a balance between ET and JI, where your instrument sounds in tune with itself and the band. For instance, OE9 and SE9 are essentially the same Newman offsets, but SE9 is shifted 9 or 10 cents higher so that the flat notes won't sound so flat. Of course, we tend to compensate for a lot with the bar.....
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Al Evans
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2022 6:52 am
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
| I've used my sweeteners (as previously noted the Newman's) on a D-10 Franklin, a D-10 GFI Ultra and now on my new GFI S-10 with Pad Ultra keyless. |
I've been happily using your sweeteners on my MSA Legend, Mullen G2, and Zumsteel Encore.
I do the knee levers by ear, and make a tweak here and there as required, but they generally work great!
--Al Evans
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2018 MSA Legend, 2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon |
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Jeremy King
From:
Rochelle, GA, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2022 11:13 am
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| I have used the Newman (SE9) settings for about a year before I discovered b0b's presets. For my steels, b0b's tuning works great. His sweetened tuning for E9 is under the user trading post. You can use it for open strings and pedal/knee levers. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2022 4:05 pm
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I think you hit it on the head Tom M.
I'm finding my intonation inaccuracy now is more to do with parallax. My strings are ~ 3/4" off the fret board. It's surprising how far I have to be behind the fret down at the first few frets to be at proper pitch.
I now mount my tuner to my PSG leg and i can watch it as I'm practicing which has been helpful to reinforce good intonation. |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 3 Jan 2022 5:20 pm
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John, you can get a thousand answer to the tuning of your steel. I went through this years ago. I have used the Jeff Newman setup he made, along with the people from Peterson tuners. I use his tuning chart on all my guitars, and it sound great, to me. That is the answer, TO ME> LOL. How are thing in OHIO, I talk with a player in Middletown, OH all the time. David Zornes, wonderful guy. Talked to you a few times too. When you gonna do a jam.
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Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2022 5:28 pm
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| Jim Reynolds wrote: |
| John, you can get a thousand answer to the tuning of your steel. I went through this years ago. I have used the Jeff Newman setup he made, along with the people from Peterson tuners. I use his tuning chart on all my guitars, and it sound great, to me. That is the answer, TO ME> LOL. How are thing in OHIO, I talk with a player in Middletown, OH all the time. David Zornes, wonderful guy. Talked to you a few times too. When you gonna do a jam. |
Hi Jim,
I'm hoping Gary Preston will throw another steel shindig. Its bee a while Buddy. Take care
JB
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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John Sims
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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Posted 7 Feb 2022 4:13 pm
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How do I obtain the U12 - Peterson Universal Pedal Steel Sweetener Jeff Newman's Original Settings and P12 - Peterson Universal Pedal Steel Pedals & Levers Jeff Newman's Original Settings for a Strobo Clip? Are these only available for the Strobo Stomp models? I don't see them in the Peterson's menu nor do they come up in a search.
Also, when creating a 'sweetner' do the sliders register in cents?
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Best Regards,
John
1997 Carter U-12 Double Body-Natural Birdseye Maple-8p/5k, Peavey Nashville 1000 Amp, Goodrich L10K Vol. Pedal, Boss DD-3 Delay, Boss CE-5 Chorus, Behringer UMC-204HD Audio Interface, AKAI MPK Mini MK3 Professional Midi Keyboard/Controller, Gretsch Bobtail Resonator, Fender Banjo, Rondo SX Lap Steel (C6), DIY Lap Steel (Open D), and a few Mojo Hand Cigar Box Guitars (MojoHandGuitars.com). |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 7 Feb 2022 7:11 pm
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| Or you can learn to tune by ear. Different steels have different cabinet drop. You have to tune a steel to itself. |
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Ben Lawson
From:
Brooksville Florida
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 6:40 am
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| I think your ears, may have your tuning built in. We all usually use some model of electronic tuner, and we each tune to our personal unit. I've asked band members to compare tuners and I've never seen tuners agree. I tune with an A from the piano first, then when everything sounds good to my ear we all play a chord and recheck. Since I play a D10 P/P Emmons the first is always string six with pedals down. It works for me but I know we all have our own way of doing it. The best bands I've heard usually use the same tuner initially. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 6:50 am
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| Ben Lawson wrote: |
| I think your ears, may have your tuning built in. We all usually use some model of electronic tuner, and we each tune to our personal unit. I've asked band members to compare tuners and I've never seen tuners agree. I tune with an A from the piano first, then when everything sounds good to my ear we all play a chord and recheck. Since I play a D10 P/P Emmons the first is always string six with pedals down. It works for me but I know we all have our own way of doing it. The best bands I've heard usually use the same tuner initially. |
Speaking of "A". I worked with a lead guitar player in Kansas City (Billy Charles). He would have me give him an A and he would tune his guitar off of that. |
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John Sims
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 6:58 am
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Jack, I've heard of a lot of guitar players doing that! Question that you might know; when creating a 'sweetener' on Peterson's website, do the slider numbers register in cents or hertz when adjusting them while creating a tuning? I downloaded your sweeteners and they are great! Thanks!
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Best Regards,
John
1997 Carter U-12 Double Body-Natural Birdseye Maple-8p/5k, Peavey Nashville 1000 Amp, Goodrich L10K Vol. Pedal, Boss DD-3 Delay, Boss CE-5 Chorus, Behringer UMC-204HD Audio Interface, AKAI MPK Mini MK3 Professional Midi Keyboard/Controller, Gretsch Bobtail Resonator, Fender Banjo, Rondo SX Lap Steel (C6), DIY Lap Steel (Open D), and a few Mojo Hand Cigar Box Guitars (MojoHandGuitars.com). |
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Doug Taylor
From:
Shelbyville, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 9:40 am
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| I have tried several of the different sweeteners available and settled on Jack Stoners presets! I have a 70s Sierra Olympic and it sounds best in tune with Jacks! |
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John Sims
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 10:14 am
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I downloaded Jacks to my StrobClip however I am looking for the U12 tuning. I tried to make one myself but am not sure if the Peterson custom tuning slider numbers represent hertz or cents.
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Best Regards,
John
1997 Carter U-12 Double Body-Natural Birdseye Maple-8p/5k, Peavey Nashville 1000 Amp, Goodrich L10K Vol. Pedal, Boss DD-3 Delay, Boss CE-5 Chorus, Behringer UMC-204HD Audio Interface, AKAI MPK Mini MK3 Professional Midi Keyboard/Controller, Gretsch Bobtail Resonator, Fender Banjo, Rondo SX Lap Steel (C6), DIY Lap Steel (Open D), and a few Mojo Hand Cigar Box Guitars (MojoHandGuitars.com). |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 11:33 am
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| John Sims wrote: |
| I downloaded Jacks to my StrobClip however I am looking for the U12 tuning. I tried to make one myself but am not sure if the Peterson custom tuning slider numbers represent hertz or cents. |
They are cents. Cents are a music concept (100ths of a semitone). Hertz is science (cycles per second).
Hertz rarely makes any sense in a musical context. For example, if A is 440.0 Hz, E is 329.6 Hz in equal temperament and 330.0 Hz in just intonation. Every note has a totally different hertz value. It would be a nightmare to try to tune a pedal steel to hertz. Here's a chart of hertz for music notes:
https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html.
Tuners use cents as an offset from equal temperament. That allows you to see the musical difference between notes, as in "tune the major thirds 14 cents flat of the roots".
_________________
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Last edited by b0b on 8 Feb 2022 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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