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Topic: "Jumping" Cross Shafts |
Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2021 3:11 am |
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I've gotten used to the staggered LKL on my Carter, so I'm now planning on adding one to my Super Pro. Eyeballing things, I'm pretty sure I've figured out how to fit it in there in the tight quarters around pedals 2 and 3, the current LKL, and the LKV. But staring up at me is a wide open space further down the train, between the cross shafts to pedals 3 and 4. Which gets me thinking: has anyone ever rigged up a "jumping" system in a Super Pro similar to the way older (Pro era) Sho Buds would use a long rod to connect LKL to a cross shaft (or rack) closer to the middle of the guitar, or (more realistically) like the gear-down B pedal set-up in the Carter?
I can picture how it would work, but I don't know if it would present unforeseen problems, and I hate to drill mounting holes under there that I would end up not using. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2021 3:58 am
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Yes! SO I guess they were still doing this in the Super Pro era, just hadn't seen it before. It's a little hard to see around the levers in that pic, but I assume the snap-on ball-joint connectors are attached to standard Super Pro bellcranks at both ends, right? I guess I'm surprised that the threaded part of the connector would fit through the pull-rod hole of a Super Pro bellcrank.
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 6 Dec 2021 4:12 am
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This would be the cross shaft assembly of a pre-Super Pro. A piece of angle welded on to the shaft. I do not know how the Super Pro did it. But it did occur to me that maybe you could attach it to a bell crank. But you would need to drill out a hole. If those are pot metal, I don't like the odds of this working.
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 6 Dec 2021 4:15 am
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| I'm slow -- I am realizing that it is indeed a bellcrank on the lever side of things on the Super Pro. Standard procedure or home cooking, I wonder? |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2021 4:45 am
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Probably requires something like the mounting for the half stop mechanism on the Super Pro. Just talking about the brass collars on the bellcrank here (obviously without the half-stop's brass barrel, sliding unfastened rod, etc.):
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 6 Dec 2021 4:22 pm
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You just need to drill the holes out in the bell cranks for the ball studs. They are 10-32, so a 13/64" drill. Sho-Bud would put them in 2nd hole from the end of the bell crank on both ends of the mechanism so that the linkage didn't hang down to low but the ratio was still 1:1. Michael Yahl sells the linkages.
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All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 6 Dec 2021 4:27 pm Re:
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| Dan Beller-McKenna wrote: |
| and I hate to drill mounting holes under there that I would end up not using. |
Looks like that's already been done (in at least 5 places). I've done a similar thing (jumping a lever pull from one place to another) on MSA guitars, and there's no reason it couldn't be done on any guitar as long as you line things up properly. |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2021 4:22 am
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Looks like getting the whole assembly from Michael Yahl is the way to go. I've never tapped a thread before; guess I have a new skill to learn!
Not sure what five places you're referring to Donny, although I have made lots of holes in my Super Pro; all necessary to add and re-position C6 left knee levers.
The area I'm working in is still relatively unmolested:
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2021 1:32 pm
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GFI mounts all knee levers on the rear of the body and use a pull rod to reach a cross rod pretty much anywhere on the neck. The lever isn't directly attached to the "action" crossrod, and I think that's a great design, far easier to put levers exactly where you want them.
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Nikolai Shveitser
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2021 3:18 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Dan Beller-McKenna wrote: |
| and I hate to drill mounting holes under there that I would end up not using. |
Looks like that's already been done (in at least 5 places). I've done a similar thing (jumping a lever pull from one place to another) on MSA guitars, and there's no reason it couldn't be done on any guitar as long as you line things up properly. |
I stumbled upon this while trying to time the pulls on an old MSA. Really useful if you need travel that is in between, say, the second and third hole in the bell crank. For example, use the third hole on the parent bell crank (the one connected to the pedal/lever), then have the pull rod connect to the second hole of the bell crank on the dummy cross shaft. The pull rod from the dummy cross shaft to the changer sits in the second hole of its respective bell crank (the other bell crank on the dummy cross shaft). Hope this makes sense. I'd imagine this works on other all pull steels too, though it might not prove necessary with bell cranks that have more than 4 holes. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2021 9:12 pm
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The best reasons to put an extra Dummy Cross Rod from a mechanical engineering view, Is stability to the changer and more precise pulls.
With the use of an extra cross shaft, The bell cranks can be aligned with the changer fingers for perfect straight pulls with no binding or rubbing on changer fingers during pulls.
Also with an extra Cross Rod a knee lever can be offset and attached to the guitar wherever to allow easier manipulation , The knee lever will only put side stress on the cross rod not on the changer. By using a bell crank and rod to activate the Dummy Cross and a bell crank for the rod going to the Changer Fingers, Allows instead of 6 pulls on 1 bell crank 2 more 6 hole bell cranks would allow more exact timing of pulls.
I was at my friends shop 1 day, He had a Steel on his bench that had a Dummy Cross Shaft for each knee lever and pedal. He said it was the easiest steel to time pulls he had ever worked on. I am not sure what make the guitar was. |
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