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Topic: Advice needed: Third string keeps breaking |
Bobby Kramer
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 4:12 pm |
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Hey ya'll,
I've been having a consistent issue with my third string breaking on my Stage One. Every time I change strings I seem to have to order extras of the third string because it breaks when I bring it to tune, or as soon as I engage the B pedal. Or shortly after some light playing. It sometimes does this several times in a row before finally holding.
At first I thought it was a bad string (I've been using the Jagwire Lloyd Green set and ordering extra .0115's as needed), but there's no way one person could keep getting the same bad string over and over when the other strings are fine. Doug E. said an .011 or .012 should be fine for this steel, so its not like I'm putting the wrong gauge on.
I recall when I first received my Stage One that the 3rd string was broken when I took it out of the case. At the time I brushed it off as a side effect of the shipping, but I'm now beginning to suspect that maybe some part of the hardware is compromising the string. A sharp edge somewhere, perhaps. I thought maybe it was the roller, but after the most recent break I put the string back on the steel to see where it broke, and it goes all the way to the tuning peg. I can't feel any obvious sharp edges on the peg, but I suspect with the amount of tension involved it would only take a small defect in the metal to break a string.
Everything else about the steel is great, its just this one issue I keep running into. Does anybody have experience with a similar issue, or recommendations for things to check?
Thanks,
- Bobby K. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 4:46 pm
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The first obvious question is how many turns are you putting on that peg? The 3rd needs more than any other string.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Christopher Peck
From:
Seattle
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 7:10 pm
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| is it breaking at the tuning peg every time? |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2021 7:49 pm
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Check for burrs or sharp edges on the hole through the cap span shaft of the 3rd key. Cut the string long enough, (3 spaces between keys long.) enough to cover the hole and have at least 1 full wrap on the solid shaft. Like this picture shows.
Micky Adams suggests bringing the 3rd string to F/F# work pedals a few times before taking the 3rd string to G#.
BE CAREFUL, If a new string breaks at the key head, It may hit you in the face.
Good Luck and Happy Steelin. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Dec 2021 6:26 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
Check for burrs or sharp edges on the hole through the cap span shaft of the 3rd key. Cut the string long enough, (3 spaces between keys long.) enough to cover the hole and have at least 1 full wrap on the solid shaft. Like this picture shows.
Micky Adams suggests bringing the 3rd string to F/F# work pedals a few times before taking the 3rd string to G#.
BE CAREFUL, If a new string breaks at the key head, It may hit you in the face.
Good Luck and Happy Steelin. |
If I am changing all the strings and have the time, I will take the 3rd string to F# for an hour or so, then to G for a while, then to G# for a while, then tune the pedal. Haven't broken a third string in probably 20 years. I also cut the string about 3 tuning key spaces past the 3rd tuning key for lots of wraps. All other strings are only 2 keys worth. I prefer a .012, but will use a .011 or .0115 depending what is in the set I bought.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 1 Dec 2021 7:00 am
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There are many knowledgeable people here, but probably the most knowedgeable about your guitar is the man who built it. I'd seek his advice first.
I would also confirm the question Christopher asked about the string breaking at the tuner. If that is consistent, using multiple wraps may help move the string away from the tuner hole and any burrs that might be there.
Another thing you can do, is swap the tuner for another one, say 5 or 6 or one that has a wound string if it will transfer to the other side.
The 3rd is the tiniest and most likely one to groove the tuner shaft.
Assuming the breakage is consistent at the tuner, I would remove the tuner from the keyhead and inspect it closely for grooves and burrs. A mild abrasive like crocus cloth, plumber strap and similar will help smooth it out. While I'm there, I'd just go ahead and swap it out anyway.
If the breakage is inconsistent like breaking between the tuner and the bridge roller at various points, it could very well be bad strings. Whole batches of bad strings of the same gauge are certainly not unheard of. I've witnessed this in my own experience. |
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Jeremy King
From:
Rochelle, GA, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2021 7:23 am
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| I was struggling with this same issue at one time on a different brand and I found that getting certain strings helped out (NYXL, Jagwires, Live Strings). Making sure the string is straight to the tuner also made a big difference. I also swapped the tuning machine with the second string tuner so it might have been a burr. I know it is a frustrating thing so I hope you get it worked out soon. I just placed an order with Doug to get an Encore model and I'm really excited to try it out! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Dec 2021 8:02 am
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| For the third string, I found that lot's of wraps, at least 7 or 8, usually solves the problem of breaking at the key. That many wraps will usually take you off the hole and onto the solid part of the shaft. But if the problem persists, you may need to remove the key and deburr the edges of the hole. |
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Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2021 8:51 am
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| i cut my 3rd string 2” past the end of the key head, wind two wraps to the back side of the guitar, then cross over for the final wraps to the outside of the guitar. I can’t remember the last time I broke a 3rd. |
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Bobby Kramer
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2021 11:11 am
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Wow! Thank you all for the prompt and helpful responses.
To your question Christopher Peck, I have not been checking every time it breaks, but I will be paying close attention moving forward.
To your comment Jerry Overstreet, I have not contacted Doug E. on this yet (mainly because I know he's incredibly busy) but if the aforementioned solutions don't work I may have to reach out.
It sounds like the first thing I should try is more winds to get the string away from the hole. This is counterintuitive to how I would usually string up a 6 string, where I usually try to reduce winds for tuning stability, but it makes sense to do more on the small string of a pedal steel.
Thanks again everybody for your responses! Nice to know I can always count on helpful input from people on this forum. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Patrick Huey
From:
Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2021 7:31 am
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| Bobby Kramer wrote: |
Wow! Thank you all for the prompt and helpful responses.
To your question Christopher Peck, I have not been checking every time it breaks, but I will be paying close attention moving forward.
To your comment Jerry Overstreet, I have not contacted Doug E. on this yet (mainly because I know he's incredibly busy) but if the aforementioned solutions don't work I may have to reach out.
It sounds like the first thing I should try is more winds to get the string away from the hole. This is counterintuitive to how I would usually string up a 6 string, where I usually try to reduce winds for tuning stability, but it makes sense to do more on the small string of a pedal steel.
Thanks again everybody for your responses! Nice to know I can always count on helpful input from people on this forum. |
Bobby,
The very first thing I would do is check the hole and shaft on tuning key VERY closely for any rough edges around both sides of the hole. Breaking constantly at tuning key is almost always caused by a minute rough spot or burr on the edge of that hole
_________________
Pre RP Mullen D10 8/7, Zum 3/4, Carter S-10 3/4, previous Cougar SD-10 3/4 & GFI S-10 3/4, Fender Steel King, 2 Peavey Session 500's, Peavey Nashville 400, Boss DD-3, Profex-II, Hilton Digital Sustain, '88 Les Paul Custom,Epiphone MBIBG J-45, Fender Strat & Tele's, Takamine acoustics, Marshall amps, Boss effects, Ibanez Tube Screamer, and it all started with an old cranky worn out Kay acoustic you could slide a Mack truck between the strings and fretboard on!! |
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Bobby Kramer
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2021 11:05 am
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| Thanks Patrick. I did try changing the string again with a longer wind (with some pushes on the pedals before it was fully up to tune to try and pre-stretch it a bit) and it did break in the exact same place, so I'll be inspecting the tuner closely to look for burrs before I try another string. |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 2 Dec 2021 1:25 pm
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| A piece of cotton, or even a cotton swab (Q-tip), can be quite helpful in locating a burr or rough spot. |
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2021 2:32 pm
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1 dress the hole in the tuning key
2 turn the tuning nut for the 3rd string on the B pedal
counterclockwise a couple of turns
3 install a new string as has been recommended here, the
string should take off from the shaft a few wraps past
the hole
4 using a meter, tune the string to to G#. Pull the
stretch out of it gently two or three times. You can
rip it right off with your bare hands. Tune to pitch
and stretch some more. Repeat until it stays at G#
reasonably well
5 VERY CAREFULLY and slowly operate the foot pedal while
watching the tuner, it should be quite flat of the
A note. Check the tuning of the open string for G# and
adjust. Repeat the process, turn the tuning nut
clockwise a bit at a time until the string reliably
comes up to A each time you operate the pedal, and
returns to G#. Watch your tuner as you do all this and
be sure the string does not go past the A note. |
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Bobby Kramer
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2021 6:23 pm
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Hey Doug, thanks for the suggestion! Between winding a little more string and your tuneup/stretching method, this third one seems to be holding. (Why is it always the LAST spare string that finally holds?  ) I'll have to remember this next time I need to tune up a 3rd string. I wonder if upping to a .012 would reduce the chance of breakage?
In any case, thanks again everybody for your input! Now to get back to the music part of steel playing... |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Dec 2021 3:54 pm
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| Chris Templeton wrote: |
...that many wraps will usually take you off the hole". Please explain more.
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Chris, if you look at the pic Richard posted above, you can see that he has about 7 wraps on the key (on the far left of the picture), which makes sure the string coming off the nut (where the most tension is) is not pulling across the hole in the tuner.
It's a good practice, and you only have to do that on the thinnest (plain) strings. |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 5 Dec 2021 4:41 pm
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I've had good luck using the string as a cushion on the peg, wind it a good 10 times allowing the string to double back on itself and layer over.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 7 Dec 2021 1:44 am
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| Larry Bressington wrote: |
| I've had good luck using the string as a cushion on the peg, wind it a good 10 times allowing the string to double back on itself and layer over. |
I would never do that as it will make general tuning unreliable. The pressure of crisscross stops the understrngs from fully bedding in under full tension and some gradual detaining can result |
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Scott Baumann
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2021 10:48 am
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| Was dealing with the same issue last week. For me the fix was a tiny bit of oil on the roller. Went thru 4 strings and more than a few drops of blood before Tal Herbsman came to my rescue. |
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