New to The Pedal Steel. Starting on an MSA Red Baron.

Andrew Danner · From: North Carolina, USA

Hello all.
I'm new to the Pedal Steel, and the Forum. I've played all types of fretted instruments and have been eyeballing Pedal Steels for a few years. I finally bit the bullet and purchased an MSA Red Baron. I'm slowly learning it as I go. Called the factory, they were super helpful and said this forum is the ticket. We live without internet and cell phone, so looking things up to figure out at night isnt an option. I'm doing my best to piecemeal questions and answers together but,
If you're reading this and thinking, "this $0.02 is the information he needs to be successful " please send it my way, it would be so greatly appreciated. I did get the 6 issues of Steel Guitarist and slowly thumbing through it.
But let's make one thing clear, I'm not too proud to say I know nothing, and am blissfully and ignorantly ambling though it.

One question I have, which I'm still working on figuring out is.
How to I tune / adjust my pedals? It's an emmons setup 3 +1. I'm having a similar problem as this guy https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=365557&highlight=msa+red+baron
The a pedal and c pedal need to be tweaked but the B pedal has a quicker take up on the lower guage string than the higher. To get the higher pitch string correct by depressing the b pedal puts my lower string 1 1/2 steps over tuned.
The link above has good advice but before I start twisting and tweaking I want to sure I'm not going to do anything that's gonna break the bank to undo.

Thanks all
AD from Tuckaseegee NC

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

If you don’t get your Red Baron fixed Too suit you.
Jimmie Hudson might take your MSA in on trade for new 10 string Hudson.
They are very user friendly. An sound very good.
I’ had a MSA Red Baron like you own an was not impressed.

Dave Dube · Posted 12 Mar 2021 9:16 pm

Andrew,

I have never fooled with a swing arm setup like your guitar has, but having said that, I bet that the set screw on the heavier string needs adjusting. I have seen a couple posts where this problem happens with string 10. Try the same procedure with string 6.

Try tuning your guitar like this:

1. With A and B pedals pressed, tune both a pedal strings to c#.

2. With pedals still depressed, tune the B pedal strings to an A pitch.

3. Take foot off the pedals and check the strings your B pedal changes (3 & 6). Are they off pitch?

4. If yes, turn the screw and listen to how the pitch changes. That is how you change the open note. Either tighten or loosen to bring it into tune.

5. The knee lever lowers 8. Tune the open note with the tuning key.

6. Press the knee lever all the way in. Now use the screw to adjust the pitch while the lever is engaged.

That's the normal way to tune that kind of a guitar.
Now if you did that and you still can't get the heavier string to tune up, there are 2 more things to try.

Back the set screw all the way out. Step on the pedals and with pedals down tune to A. Then let off the pedals and try tuning the set screw again.

If that doesn't work, check the string itself. Using a wound string will pull tighter than a plain string and give a higher pitch faster. Plain strings are usually .020 whereas a wound string would be something like like .022.
Do you have a wound string on #6? If so try an .020 plain string for less tension and lower pitch. You might have to do some tuning but it might bring you into the ballpark.

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/009241.html

Finally, if this all works and you get it setup, here is a web site with hundreds of free lessons and some tabs for playing steel guitar:

https://dhdube.wixsite.com/psgbeginner

(I know you don't get it where you live but when you get a chance try it out. Public library in most towns has free internet access for you to use.)

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Winnie Winston's book is written for your 3 pedal 1 knee lever setup.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=winnie+winston+pedal+steel+book&qs=AS&pq=winnie+winston&sk=AS4&sc=5-14&cvid=B0EF69E012C9494687BE03E3D9CBDC91&FORM=QBRE&sp=5
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Sooner or later, you're going to want a better guitar, with 4 knee levers. Probably sooner that you think. You should Start saving up for one now.
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
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Dave Dube · Posted 12 Mar 2021 10:03 pm

But Mike, MSA's are what is it...?

Magnificent Stupendous and Awesome? Very Happy

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Dave Dube · Posted 12 Mar 2021 10:16 pm

Yeah you are right Mike.

He has a beginner guitar. He is a beginner. He doesn't know whether he wants to be a pro. Why not let him try to get some ROI since he already has this guitar?

Winnie's Book was good advice. After a while we can recommend your book on theory Smile

I got mine many years ago.

Here is a red baron:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDRTmHBOCwY

What is wrong with that? I bet he didn't learn that in a year of playing.

Kelcey ONeil · From: Sevierville, TN

Andrew,
Sent you a private message.

Bill Ferguson · From: Milton, FL USA

I have to agree with Dave.

Whatever guitar you have is better than nothing.

It's just GREAT to see young (I assume) or new players of our crazy instrument. For without them, there will be no steel guitar in a few short years.

Andrew, if there is anything I can help you with, please contact me. I do anything possible to help new players.
But I don't know about adjusting a Red Baron.

Bill
_________________
AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Dave Dube · Posted 13 Mar 2021 9:26 pm

Yep Mike, I've seen a few on the internet. They also make black sidekicks. The black ones sound best. Laughing

Did you hear that playing? When a person plays like that on a Red Baron, they will do justice to a pro guitar.

BTW, did I read somewhere that you were under the weather a bit? I hope all is well with you now.

Andrew, let us know if you get it sorted out. I can't believe that we don't have someone among us who knows those guitars.

Andrew Danner · From: North Carolina, USA

Guys,

Thanks so much for your input.ive been slow at checking responses, but I'm chipping away at them.

I'm 33 so I'm young enough by today's standards. I'm ancient by Caveman standards. Haha

But seriously, this for me is my "getting into it" pedal steel, and we will see how it goes. I've gotten along with it for goofing off, but now it's time to get forreal. I already see the merits of the second knee lever, but for now. This is what I've got, so this is what I'll be using.

Joe Krumel · From: Hermitage, Tn.

Good thinking Andrew. Dont get the wagon before the horse. You will know when you are really in need of better equipment. Like Rory Hoffman so wisely said,"My objective is to just make music". Enjoy your learning and picking.

Pete McAvity · From: St. Louis, Missouri USA

Heya, Andrew. Hope you get sorted. My first 10 string was an MSA Sidekick that sounded great & was plenty to chew on for awhile. I was fortunate enough to get a student model GFI w/ 4 levers after that. This'll probably be your next "level", and you'll know it when you know it. Either a Student GFI, Carter or Stage One- or go to either a double 10 or universal 12. Cost was the biggest factor for me, otherwise I'd have gone straight to a D10. Keep an eye here on the For Sale section when the time is right.

Be good,
Pete
_________________
Excel Superb D10, Sarno Black Box or Freeloader, Goodrich L120, Boss DD5, Baby Bloomer, 1965 Super Reverb chopped to a head, feeding a mystery PA cab w/ a K130.

They say "thats how it goes". I say "that ain't the way it stays!"

Andrew Goulet · Posted 26 Mar 2021 8:52 am

I'm not familiar enough with the model to be much help. But I just wanted to say that mechanical issues are frustrating and get in the way of playing, but if you take it slow and spend enough time under the hood, you'll undoubtedly learn a lot about the guitar more quickly than you might think.
_________________
Marlen S12 pedal steel
SX 6 string lap steel
ZT Club and Lunchbox

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Andrew Danner · From: North Carolina, USA

Guys,

Thanks so much for your input.ive been slow at checking responses, but I'm chipping away at them.

I'm 33 so I'm young enough by today's standards. I'm ancient by Caveman standards. Haha

But seriously, this for me is my "getting into it" pedal steel, and we will see how it goes. I've gotten along with it for goofing off, but now it's time to get forreal. I already see the merits of the second knee lever, but for now. This is what I've got, so this is what I'll be using.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Andrew, below is a link to the owner's manual for a MSA "Sidekick" guitar. They were very similar to the "Red Baron", and this might help you as far as the setup and tuning procedures.

http://www.steelguitar.com/manuals/MSA_Sidekick_OwnersManual.pdf

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

I started on a Red Baron. Played it for years before I got my first pro guitar. They are solid guitars.
_________________
2013 Williams D-10, 2019 Williams D-10, 1970 Fender Twin, Evans SE200, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Hilton pedal, Jagwire Strings.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Same as Craig. It got me started and addicted.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I can still remember the day that I'd have gone in the ring with Cassius Clay to get something like a Red Baron! While they don't have lots of pedals and levers like modern guitars, you can still learn the basics and play a lot of good music on them. Cool

Listen to the ride on this song, played with just two pedals and no levers Exclamation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkjKOClJuvM

Andrew Goulet · Posted 6 Dec 2021 9:03 am

Donny, that is a killer ride. Buddy Charleton?
_________________
Marlen S12 pedal steel
SX 6 string lap steel
ZT Club and Lunchbox

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Bingo!

(And you'd be surprised by the number of players who decry simple "A&B pedal mashing", but couldn't play that ride decently if their life depended on it. Laughing

)

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I think any pedal steel that works properly is a lot better than no pedal steel at all, even if it's just A and B pedals. My concern is that some starter steels I've played just do not work properly at all. I know guitar players trying to learn pedal steel who have just thrown their hands up in disgust trying to deal with a mechanism that just doesn't work correctly. Never to return again.

I think having a decent working mechanism is the sine qua non to learning pedal steel. Whatever it takes, simple or complex - it's gotta work right.

I saw earlier objection to what Mike Perlowin (RIP) was saying earlier - "Sooner or later, you're going to want a better guitar, with 4 knee levers. Probably sooner that you think. You should Start saving up for one now." I basically agree with this. He's not saying not to get this guitar working correctly and use it. But I think most people seriously trying to learn pedal steel are gonna want a better instrument at some point. I don't think this is controversial.

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