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Topic: String 3 - G# - Confusing Me Badly! |
Ty Ueda
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2021 7:19 pm |
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Hi all,
At a certain point, I realized that my steel (an MSA Classic S-10) was heinously dirty and not all that well cleaned or well taken care of, I decided to take the whole thing apart, clean it to the high heavens, and reassemble. I'm a fairly mechanically savvy person (I fix pinball machines as one of my main forms of income) so I can take things apart and put things back together without a diagram and get everything working more or less the way I want it to. I took all the rods out, made a diagram of the rod positions, completely disassembled, cleaned and re-lubicrated the changer, all the pull rods, and everything in-between. When putting everything back together almost everything works with the small exception of the 3 string, which is exhibiting this symptom:
I currently have the steel set to the Emmonds 3x4 E9th with the knee levers reversed (the idea is to bring the MSA back to its original copedent).
I cannot get the 3 string to pull up to a half step with the B pedal pressed. The 6 string pulls up to the A no issue, but I find that when I bring the tune the nylon nut on the string 3 up get to the A, it brings the whole string up with it, and (surprise, surprise) breaks eventually before I realized I've tuned it to far.
What could, mechanically, be the cause of this? |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2021 7:40 pm
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Ty, Read the section about overtuning by Jon Light at the beginning of this section. That's what it sounds like to me. May also be string gauge changes. Ron
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Sep 2021 7:52 pm
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Yes, you're overtuned. 
Here's a tip for newbies. Never just hold a pedal down and keep turning the tuning nut. Always press the pedal, tune a little, and then release the pedal. Then repeat that action - press, tune a little, then release. That way, you'll be far less likely to get things way out of whack before you realize something's wrong.  |
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2021 8:00 pm
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Hello, Ty,
Sounds like Ron is right. But I might add that it also sounds like you may need more movement in the rod. G# to A is only 1/2 a step, but smaller strings need more pulling than large strings to do the same change (G# to A).
Moving the rod at a hole farther from the cross shaft will give you more movement. If this does not take care of it, then more details:
1. When you tune it, and press the B pedal, is it like it's supposed to be, A? And then:
2. Is it sharp (sharper than G#) when you release the B pedal?
Hope this helps......Pat.
Last edited by Pat Chong on 12 Sep 2021 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ty Ueda
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2021 8:01 pm
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| Ron Pruter wrote: |
| Ty, Read the section about overtuning by Jon Light at the beginning of this section. That's what it sounds like to me. May also be string gauge changes. Ron |
The answer is always closer than you think, isn't it. Thanks for the directional pointer.
I'm off to bed for the night but I will give it a full read tomorrow. I appreciate any and all helpful pointers and I'd qualify this as that!
Take care,
Ty |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2021 8:04 pm
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The 3rd string being smaller, Takes more travel to Raise from G# to A than the 6th string G# to A.
Loosen the pull on the 6th string, Then go to the 3rd string, Move stops and may have to move the pull rod in the Bell Crank out farther from the cross rod to reach the A note. When you get the 3rd string in G#, And pull to A in tune.
Then go to the 6th and tune the G#. The 6th pull should then go to the A note Without reaching stop on 3rd string.
First Rule to setting up a steel guitar.
Always set up and tune small string first, Then set up the larger diameter strings after small string is tuned.
You learn this rule quick on a 12 String Universal with 3 G# to A raises and 3 E to F raises.
Good Luck in this project and Happy Steelin. |
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Ty Ueda
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2021 8:05 pm
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| Pat Chong wrote: |
Hello, Ty,
Sounds like Ron is right. But I might add that it also sounds like you may need more movement in the rod. G# to A is only 1/2 a step, but smaller strings need more pulling than large strings to do the same change (G# to A).
Moving the rod at a hole farther from the cross shaft will give you more movement. If this does not take care of it, then more details: |
Pat, thanks for this as well. I've been curious about the cross shaft/changer relevance and have had a hard time finding a clear cut description when I read. Probably my own dumb brain and eyes but, hey, I must have learned one too many things about fire ants or something just as useless as a child which prevents more knowledge from coming in. |
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2021 8:24 pm
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Your welcome Ty.
I would not attribute it to "dumb brain/eyes or fire ants", but rather, when working in any field, there are always little "tricks of the trade" one learns, that's one of them.
Warp 3 on your repair, Engage! ....Pat |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 Sep 2021 11:55 pm
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A pedal steel is a complicated beast full of unintended consequences. For simplicity I can recommend the trombone 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ty Ueda
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2021 11:42 am
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I all, I wanted to close the loop on this one and thank Ron, Donny, Pat and Bobby for the helpful words and for pointing to the proper places. I now have my steel set back up to the way it was, and am now getting around to experimenting with some new setups. The steel came with a 5x4 setup with two of the pedals detached without rods or cranks. I have everything I need to get it back to the way it came from the factory, but I'll be doing a little picking with it as is before I figure out what I want more of.
Thanks once again and have a good day,
Ty |
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