4th string tuning problem on ZS Stage One (E9)

Sam Hunt · From: Georgia, USA

Hi all,
About a week ago I acquired my first steel guitar and it's been going great - highly addicting and fun to play. I went to tune it this morning and I cannot get past this issue after spending a good chunk of time on it, so I'm reaching out for guidance before going to the shop. On the plus side, I've gotten a better understanding of how this works.

I cannot get the 4th string to stay in tune between the C pedal and two left knee levers. I can get 3 out of 4 combinations to be (mostly) in tune, but not all 4. For instance, I can get an F with LKL engaged, but its nut pulls the D# from LKR way sharp (even with the other two nuts slackened). Does this make sense? Is there a way to start from scratch?

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

If I'm reading your post correctly, it's a ZumSteel licensed Stage One guitar. If that is the case, just contact Doug Earnest at the factory. No one knows these guitars better and from what I see here on the forum, Doug is always eager to help with issues.

Good luck getting your issues resolved.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'll assume you're new to this machine. It's not your fault the problem is poorly described, but it's a bewildering machine until you get used to it.

Unless you've been turning set screws and cap screws on the underside, it's nearly foolproof.
But you have to tune it in the proper order: do you have the owner's manual?
The Stage One is a pull-release guitar: if you are raising a string, it can't lower, as the lowering levers only relax the finger, string tension pulls it flat.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

richard burton · From: Britain

My understanding is that the red nylon tuners are pre-set, so it's best not to touch them

John Roche · From: England

The C pedal overrides the other knee leavers that raise the fourth string..

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Doug Earnest · From: Branson, MO USA

It's not really a case of the pull release system being peculiar, it's a case of the owner buying a used guitar and not knowing what he was doing before he started turning wrenches. I know because he just told me that on the phone. I'm also sending him an owners manual.

Below is how you fix about anything on a Stage One, including this problem.

=======================================================

The only weak point on a Stage One is the knee lever mounting tabs. They can be bent if you are not careful when you get under the guitar, causing the mounting tabs to not contact the white nylon knee lever stops. It is a simple matter to correct the problem.

Turn the guitar upside down on a suitable work surface such as a table or counter top, just as you would put it in the case - front legs away from you.

Operate the lever and observe if the mounting tab for the knee lever is engaging the white round nylon stops. The mounting tab, not the folding lever, is the part that must make contact. If this is not the case, grasp the lever and gently bend it to correct the problem. You won't hurt anything, just be careful.

It is likely that the lever will be out of tune. Consult the owners manual for the correct tuning procedure.

In the case of the left knee levers being out of tune, which is often the case, do the following, in this order -

Turn all of the white tuning nuts on strings 4 and 8 counterclockwise several turns.
Turn the white tuning nut for the C pedal, pedal 3, for string 5 counterclockwise several turns.
Turn the 7/64" socket head cap screws located in the endplate above the tuning nut window for strings 4 and counterclockwise several turns
Note the position of the changer finger for strings 4 and 8. It should be in line with all the other changer fingers. If not, adjust the red tuning nut.
This should put the changer and levers back in a neutral position so they can be re-tuned correctly.

Adjust the open tuning of strings 4, 5, and 8 to proper pitch at the keyhead.

Now tune the Left Left knee lever strings 4 and 8 to the F note
Tune the C pedal string 4 to the F# note, slightly flat will be better
Tune the C pedal string 5 to the C# note. Sound strings 5 and 4 together using the B and C pedals, adjust the pitch of the 4th string to best sound to your ear.
Finally, adjust the Left Right knee lever to lower 4 and 8 to Eb (D# if you prefer to call it that) using the 7/64" socket head screw in the endplate

That should do it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Doug Earnest · From: Branson, MO USA

I'm just doing my job.

I remember all too well trying to get started learning to play one of these things years ago, pre-internet of course. I had a rack and barrell ShoBud for about a year before I ever ran onto somebody who showed me how you really tune one.

We all start from the same place, knowing nothing. Always glad to help where I can.

John Roche · From: England

If it looks like this it's ok on the changers

Greg Earnest · From: Georgia, USA

I was glad to find this thread! I have had a Stage One for nearly two years that I bought used on this site. Everything was fine until last weekend I was on my way to a gig and the thing unexpectedly bounced around in the car. I got to the gig and set up and the A and B pedals were working fine but the C pedal and the left-knee-right lever (the only one I've even tried to use so far) were all out of whack. I tried to fix it on the spot and yes, I turned the red nuts. . . so I've earned my "knucklehead" merit badge.
I'm getting a 7/64" Allen wrench tomorrow and will follow Doug Earnest's instructions above and hopefully get everything back right.

Gene Tani · From: Pac NW

Sounds like you might have transported it outside the hardshell case with the legs/pedal board attached, where it's vulnerable to bent levers, cabinet dings etc
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
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Greg Earnest · From: Georgia, USA

It was in the case, but I had to brake quickly and the case rolled around in the back of the car.

I'm happy to report that I got everything fixed today following Doug Earnest's instructions above. What I think caused the problem in the first place was that the left-knee-right lever had gotten bent just enough that when I would activate it and then release it, it wouldn't *quite* go back to its original position. Then my uninformed attempt to fix what I didn't realize was the problem, just made everything worse! I went through Doug Earnest's instructions a couple of times and couldn't figure out why things were still screwed up until I figured out what was going on the the lever. I don't know if it happened when the steel rolled around in the car, or if I did it sitting down at the guitar, but once I fixed that everything else fell into place. Thanks to Doug Earnest for making such a great beginner guitar and for his willingness to help!

William Paschall · From: New Mexico, USA

Thanks so much guys ! I just picked up a little beauty all pull S10 3&4. Appears to have some Sho-Bud blood in the rack and barrels mixed with some early Emmons in the rod to pedal department. The name on front stage right is " Baron Custom " instead of a thousand words I'll opt for the pictures. Any other advice or ideas as to what the heck it is. Thanks, Bill

William Paschall · From: New Mexico, USA

Sorry I couldn't successfully load pictures. I really shouldn't be allowed in the digital world...I'm strictly analog.

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