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Topic: Mullen Vs, Emmons Bolt on Push pull Pup question. |
John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 7:44 am |
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I have just acquired a stunning Mullen D10 and it is a class piece of engineering skill but it has big shoes to fill replacing my Bolt on push pull for sound, just lately I have reverted to an old Fender Vibrosonic and it is a match made in heaven with the Emmons but with the Mullen a total mismatch sound is thin and toppy no bass tones to amplify so, my question is what pick up should I try to go some way towards rectifying the problem? I know it is never going to sound like an Emmons P/P but I am sure some improvement is possible..... I have E66's on my Emmons that meter out almost the same as the Mullen pup's.
Thanks for any help  |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 8:09 am
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I ordered my Mullen G2 with a BL-705, and then switched to the "Z-tronics" by forumite Scott Schwarts. I really like them both, and have even switched back and forth a couple of times.
I play through a SF Twin in a modified cab with a variety of single 15"s.
I've NEVER played a Bolt-on.
edit to add: My G2 is lacquer with a wood neck. |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 8:20 am
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That's interesting Dave, My Emmons has wooden neck maybe you get more resonance with a wooden neck ??
I also use 15" either with cube or Fender, the Mullen matches the Cube a little better but the fender is a Nono for the Mullen. |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 9:02 am
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My only question is why you would want to replace a bolton? I have two of those suckers and the tone is unreal through an amp that I have.
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 9:56 am
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My road guitar is a S10 and I need the back neck more for the western swing.... But my Emmons will be staying that will never go, I just want a little more tone from the Mullen I am sure it is in there but the top end is blowing it away.
Would a change of pick up help? |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 12:46 pm
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John, I felt the same as you when I moved from a push pull to a Mullen G2. It's sort of like switching from a Telecaster to a Stratocaster. Both excellent guitars, but sound different. The Mullen has such excellent playability, I had to give it a chance. Since then, I have come to like the tone of the Mullen and get compliments on the tone from players all the time. So there is that.
One thing I did a year ago was purchase a Steel Guitar Black Box. Besides the extra something it gives a guitar, it also gives me a tone knob which allows me to tone the highs down a bit if I want something less bright (aka push pull tone) or crank it up for some sizzling clean highs.
Just my opinion of course...... |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 6:30 pm
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| I run the mids on my Twin pretty high...around 8, treble 2.5-3, and bass around 4. It's a UL 135, and it's my go to for all my steels..Emmonses, Mullens, and Sho-Buds. Have to make minor adjustments (of course), and my preferred speaker is a Sica, which I think is/was a bass speaker (I don't think they make 'em any more). I have JBL K130s, E130s, and BW1501s, and they can be on the edge of too bright without some tweaking. The Z-tronics seems to solve some of that... |
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Asa Brosius
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 6:48 pm
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| I toured with a G2 for awhile and left the push-pulls at home- it was the most satisfying machine I've ever played, easily fixed/altered on the road, just rock-solid, so smooth, precise and reliable in all mechanical respects. I didn't expect it to sound like my other guitars, but after 3 pickup changes/run through several classic steel amps and some newer ones, I threw in the towel - the polite version was 'its not the sound I was looking for'- I wish you the best of luck- it's all obviously a matter of personal taste. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 10:48 pm
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| Asa Brosius wrote: |
| I toured with a G2 for awhile and left the push-pulls at home- it was the most satisfying machine I've ever played, easily fixed/altered on the road, just rock-solid, so smooth, precise and reliable in all mechanical respects. I didn't expect it to sound like my other guitars, but after 3 pickup changes/run through several classic steel amps and some newer ones, I threw in the towel - the polite version was 'its not the sound I was looking for'- I wish you the best of luck- it's all obviously a matter of personal taste. |
A number of years ago I owned a beautiful D10 Mullen RP, with a red lacquer body and wood necks. Mechanically incredible with polished pedals and levers. It was a great guitar apart from one thing. It had a very metallic tone with extremely pronounced upper mid and high frequencies. I took those frequencies completely down on my amp at the time (a Webb) and the guitar sounded okay to my ears. I don't know if the pronounced top end came from the chromed steel end plates or the hard anodised changer rollers, but it was definitely there. I also found that using a pot volume pedal (Goodrich) tamed the highs better than the electronic potless pedal I used with the guitar at first.
In comparison, my Emmons push pull cut tail had an altogether bigger tone with a much smoother top end. The Emmons had more sustain above the 12th fret than my Mullen. I ended up selling the Mullen to a dealer in N. Ireland, who in turn sold it to a very satisfied customer. I have heard other Mullen players who have got a superb tone from their guitars, in particular two of my favourites, Tom Brumley and Tommy White. Both master pickers and tone hounds. I think the Mullen guitar is worth persevering with, as the pronounced top end can be dealt with simply by changing the eq on the amplifier.
It's better to have too much in the way of high frequencies than not enough on a guitar, as one or two older pedal steels have very dark tone (not mentioning any names). Increasing the highs and upper mids on the amp just won't cut it.
As Asa said - "it's all obviously a matter of personal taste".
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 12:51 am
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My thanks to all for the replies and I fully agree with all the compliments made to Mullen re precision and play-ability
and I understand there is a compromise to be made in the transition to an all pull if your head is full of Emmons PP sounds but I will try to adjust my head and the tone a little and make the change, my Eithne used to say "you can get used to hanging if you hang long enough"
I will not give up on this beautiful guitar and welcome suggestions as to how to cut the high's a little bit? |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 3:13 am
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| A steel guitar black box or similar unit will cut the highs. |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 5:34 am
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To the point that Justin and Ken are discussing, the standard design steel guitar single coil has a high Q and is therefore sensitive to the resistance in parallel with it, ie lower with a pot pedal and higher with with many of the electronic volume pedals. This is the same Q as on parametric equalizers if you are familiar with how those work. The spike in high frequencies is smoothed out with a lower resistance. Lower Q pickups like humbuckers and my Z Series still exhibit this behavior but to a lesser extent. To experiment with this you can simply solder different value resistors across the the output jack, something like 500k or 1 meg. Or a black box has the knob that does this.
Here are some representative graphs from my Z Series, this behavior is even more pronounced on the higher wind standard single coils.
500k parallel resistance
250k parallel resistance
125k parallel resistance
The magnetic design and other factors of the pickup design matter also, and of course the guitar itself in the overall tone, but the parallel resistance is certainly something you can experiment with.
I discuss this further in my instruction sheet
https://www.steeltronics.com/about-us
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 7:05 am
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Scott
Your post is really interesting, as are your pickups on your web site. Can I ask if your CE10 is designed to go in an Emmons guitar? I ask because since Jerry Wallace is departed, Your CE10 pickup would seem to be an ideal replacement.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E,
Last edited by Ken Byng on 13 Jul 2021 7:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 7:08 am
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Once you fall in love with a push pull that has good tone you are hooked for life.
Problem is like ( all ) pedal steel brands including ::::: Emmons push pull, Mullen, ZUM, an Franklin some have killer tone an some are below average. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 7:28 am
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| Johnie King wrote: |
Once you fall in love with a push pull that has good tone you are hooked for life.
Problem is like ( all ) pedal steel brands including ::::: Emmons push pull, Mullen, ZUM, some have killer tone an some are below average.
You just can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. |
All of my steel guitars have great tone. I have Wallace Truetones in my Sho~Bud Pro 111, Telonics pickups in my Zum, Lawrence 705 pickups in my Emmons, L710's in my Show Pro and a whole host of humbucker pickups for my MSA but my favourite slot-in pickups for the MSA again is the Lawrence 710. There isn't a duff tone among any of my guitars. I think long and hard about what pickups go in which guitar. No pigs ears among my herd.
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Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 8:25 am
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Ken,
Yes the CE10 fits an Emmons no problem for mounting and pole spacing at 77 mm. I wind these to 17K /15250 turns as standard but can do whatever desired.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 9:37 am
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Thanks so much Scott. Your pickups look to be very high quality.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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