Are Raise Helper Springs necessary ?

Jason Fredensborg · From: Zimmerman, Minnesota

I am in the process of hammering out all the details of my first steel (and hopefully last) that I am ordering from Williams. Having never played before, I just don't know if raise helper springs are something I should spring for (pun intended) Smile

I think I understand what they do, they make it easier to press on the pedals/knee levers right? Now I'm not very old, and I am in pretty good shape. I don't think I would become to easily fatigued by pedal pressure, so I am inclined to skip them. Is this a mistake? I am just thinking that by not having them to begin with, I will simply never know and therefore never miss not having them. Or is this simply a "must have" feature like air conditioning on a car that all new steels should come with? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, especially from any Williams players who may have experience playing both type of Willies.

Gary Watkins · From: Bristol, VA

Helper springs do not make it easier for you to use your pedals or knee levers. They are used to help get the string to return to the starting or original position once a pedal and/or knee lever is engaged.
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Steve Mueller · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

I've purchased 3 new Williams steels in the last 10 years. They're excellent guitars. I've had raise helpers on all 3. Since you're buying a new steel, the additional cost is not that significant compared to the cost/time/effort to add them later. Make sure you also get pitch return comps on all strings with a raise and a lower. Nearly all steels have hysteresis. This will solve that problem.
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Jason Fredensborg · From: Zimmerman, Minnesota

Jason Fredensborg · From: Zimmerman, Minnesota

Steve Mueller · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Simple explanation for hysteresis is strings with a raise and a lower will tend to return sharp when the raise is activated followed by the lower. Nearly every steel player has experienced this. It's just a fact on most steels. With pitch return comps, tune open after activating the raise, then activate the lower, the string will return sharp. Then lower to the proper pitch with the comp. I think Franklin was the first steel to make these standard on new guitars from what I've heard. I wouldn't consider owning a steel without them. Raise helpers and pitch return comps different things.
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2016 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2015 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2023 Williams S12 4 x 5, Milkman Amps, 1974 Gibson Byrdland

richard burton · From: Britain

Raise helper springs most definitely make it easier to press pedals, they take the effort out of raising the pitch of the string.

I suggest that you order the steel with the raise helper springs option, it is easy enough to remove the springs should you be so inclined

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

My Williams came with helpers without them being discussed. If the Rudolphs think they're a good idea, who am I to argue? Same with my Excel, BTW. Builder knows best.
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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

And neither of these things are return compensators, as detailed by Steve Mueller, dealing with string hysteresis, which Williams also offers.

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Your first pedal steel is going to be your last? Time will tell. ðŸ˜‰
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Gary Watkins · From: Bristol, VA

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

I have two Williams guitars. What do helper springs on them look like?

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

I didnâ€™t realize those were an option

ken collins · From: Oklahoma City, OK.

Like has been said. There are raise helpers and return springs. Totally different functions. Return springs are absolutely necessary and should never be removed. I'm sure Bill Randolph adjusts them properly before it ships. They are adjustable and only need to return the string firmly to pitch after lowering. Tight enough that when you raise the same string it does not allow the lowering spring to move forward at the same time. Usually does not need be tightened as tight as it will go. Raise helpers are nice, but I disengage any spring connected to a string that raises and lowers It impedes the lowering process. Whew, sorry to be so long winded.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

My own considered opinion is that they are not a necessary item...for most players. But, as with many things, it really depends on the situation. If you're an average player buying an S10 with the standard E9th pedal/tuning setup, then I'd say "no". But, if you have some type of physical problem that causes you pain to move the pedals and levers, they might be quite helpful. Where they can really come in handy is when you're pulling 4 or more strings with one pedal or lever. This doesn't happen much with most S10, E9th guitars, but it could be likely to happen on a D10 (with it's multiple necks, and pedals or levers that operate on both necks), or on guitars with more than 10 strings on a single neck. Since their only purpose is to reduce the pulling effort, they can make a pedal or lever more comfortable when pulling a lot of strings. They can also slightly reduce the amount of cabinet drop caused by these (stiffer) pedals and levers because they change where the additional required forces are applied, but probably few players even think about that.

Now, some players like a guitar where every pedal requires the same amount of (easy) effort, and travels the same distance. More power to 'em! But personally, I like a guitar that "pushes back" a little, as it makes me more aware of what's going on, helping me with pedaling half-tones on strings that are pulled a whole tone. In addition, some mental "quirk" I have just expects a pedal that raises or lowers a full tone to move more than a pedal than a pedal that raises or lowers only a half-tone. I have no desire to make everything move and feel the same, but that's just me.

And now, the down-side (yes, there's ALWAYS a down-side). Raise-helpers add cost and complexity, and they're just one more thing to get out of adjustment and cause you problems. Also, if I had to guess, I'd say that the majority of guitars out there probably don't have them.

Hopefully, this post will give you some added insights into the advantages and disadvantages of having them.

Good luck in whatever you choose! Cool

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Donny's back!

Jason Fredensborg · From: Zimmerman, Minnesota

Wow, lots to digest here...I am ordering a D-10 guitar, so I am assuming some of these pedals will do things on both necks? If I were to get the raise helper springs, would it also make sense to order the return compensators? As I said, this is my first steel (might as well get all all ever need right away) and I'm really shooting for the moon here.

I've done some reading about these springs (Helpers, and Compensators) on the forum here, but I'm still more than a little confused as to weather I really need them or not. I don't want to cut any corners on this guitar, but I don't want to throw money at something needlessly either.

I'm just asking about this because I have no idea if this is just nice stuff to have, or if it will greatly effect my enjoyment of the guitar as the years go by. I appreciate everyone's input so far, thank you all!

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

Bill can also explain to you anything you want to know.

Jason Fredensborg · From: Zimmerman, Minnesota

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

I felt the same way years ago when I got my Maverick

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Hysteresis comes from the area between the roller nut and the tuning key. Example: tune the 4th string (E) and push the F lever and release it and adjust the E string again.
When you have it in tune, push the Eb lever and release it. Check your E string with the tuner again. You'll find the E string is slightly sharp. The area between the roller nut and tuning key has retained some of the tension after you release the Eb lever which leaves the E string slightly sharp. A compensator on the 4th string will bring it back to pitch. The advent of the keyless guitar takes care of the problem also.
Another extreme example is the 10th string on the C6th (raising it to D and lowering it to A).
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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Here's my thinking on the return compensators. They can be 'dialed out' easily if you don't want them. Get them. Take Bill Rudolph's advice on how many, on which strings. It is a useful feature that is a lot more difficult to retrofit than to have factory-installed.

I am quite capable, setting up steels for myself and for clients but I am still working out the fine tuning of return compensators on this Williams I've had for two years (bought new), my first guitar with them. That probably says more about me than about the concept. I'm learning.
As with raise helper springs, you can mess things up, misadjusting them. But all you have to do is set them back to neutral, no harm, no foul.

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