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Topic: Amp watts question? |
George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 12 May 2021 12:31 pm |
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I have a tiny 1-1/2"x5"x7" 1.6 lb. Trace Elliott Elf amp head. It's supposed to be 200 watts. Now come on, is this thing going to be as loud as a big 200 watt amp? Even a Katana 100?
FWIW it sounds good. I'm just gun shy about using it as my gig backup amp.
Last edited by George Kimery on 12 May 2021 3:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Carl Gallagher
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 12 May 2021 12:58 pm
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| Yes,it is 200 watts into a 4ohm load and 130 watts into a 8ohm load.Make sure your speakers are rated to take the expected wattage.You do know that its a bass amp? |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 12 May 2021 1:26 pm
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One of the fairly recent Class D amps that use a switchmode power supply to convert AC current to DC. I reckon this elminates the heavy power transformer.
There are others here that can explain all the techno-talk.
They pack a lot of power in these small units.
Many tiny lunchbox and pocket sized amps use this technology.
I believe Quilter amps are also Class D. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 12 May 2021 1:39 pm Amp watts question?
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| Carl, absolutely I know it's a bass amp and knew it when I bought it. There were some videos of it being used for steel and it sounded good enough to make me pull the trigger on one. It is a class D and does sound really good with my Wet Reverb and both my JBL D-130 and Wheelhouse 150 speakers. My Evans SE 200 combo amp will still be my main amp. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 13 May 2021 9:17 am Amp watts question?
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| Can it be that the 200 watts on the Elf is peak wattage whereas the large 200 watt amps are rms watts? |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 13 May 2021 10:24 am Amp watts question?
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| Thanks, George. That clears that up. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 May 2021 12:48 pm
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I always enjoy the amp wattage threads.
George above mention the Katana 100 watt amp.
So, does that amp produce the same VOLUME LEVEL as the 100 Watt Marshal Plexi ? Can the Katana even drive 8x12" speakers ?
MR curious always enjoys the replies ! 
_________________
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jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Carl Gallagher
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 13 May 2021 1:12 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
I always enjoy the amp wattage threads.
George above mention the Katana 100 watt amp.
So, does that amp produce the same VOLUME LEVEL as the 100 Watt Marshal Plexi ? Can the Katana even drive 8x12" speakers ?
MR curious always enjoys the replies ! |
A lot depends on the speakers.Some speakers are more efficient than others a more efficient speaker will be louder than a less efficient one.The Katana can certainly push 8 12" speakers as long as the total impedance of the 8 speakers is correct. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 13 May 2021 1:26 pm Amps watt question
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A part of the equation I have left out is speaker efficiency. Many, many years ago, I vaguely remember reading that speaker efficiency can vary from 5% to 25%. If true, then the speakers efficency could make a quiet a difference in volume.
Tube wattage produces a lot more
volume than the same solid state
wattage. I've been told it takes 3 times the wattage of a solid state amp to produce the same volume of a tube amp with 1/3 the wattage.
I've always been confused about amp watts vs. volume. There seems to be no correlation between the two. I have always wanted high wattage for higher headroom, not volume. I'm not even sure that's right. I've come to the conclusion to forget about the whole wattage issue. If your amp is not loud enough, get a different amp or a different band. |
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Bill A. Moore
From:
Silver City, New Mexico, USA
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Posted 13 May 2021 2:45 pm
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| Transistor watts, and tube watts are both equal. Some think that tube watts are louder because tube breakup is less harsh sounding to the human ear than solid state. |
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Carl Gallagher
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 13 May 2021 2:49 pm Re: Amps watt question
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| George Kimery wrote: |
A part of the equation I have left out is speaker efficiency. Many, many years ago, I vaguely remember reading that speaker efficiency can vary from 5% to 25%. If true, then the speakers efficency could make a quiet a difference in volume.
Tube wattage produces a lot more
volume than the same solid state
wattage. I've been told it takes 3 times the wattage of a solid state amp to produce the same volume of a tube amp with 1/3 the wattage.
I've always been confused about amp watts vs. volume. There seems to be no correlation between the two. I have always wanted high wattage for higher headroom, not volume. I'm not even sure that's right. I've come to the conclusion to forget about the whole wattage issue. If your amp is not loud enough, get a different amp or a different band. |
Not the case at all.Tubes are far less efficient than transistors, they do not produce more volume than a transistor.They will distort more when pushed,which may give the perception of more volume.If you've ever watched the signal on a scope as a tube amp approaches and becomes distorted you will see once distortion hits the signals amplitude actually decreases.The efficiency of the speaker has a big influence on volume, not a "quiet difference".Another misconception is that a 100 watt amp is twice as loud as a 50 watt amp,not so, there is about 2 to 3 db's difference,not much at all. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 14 May 2021 12:58 am Re: Amps watt question
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| Carl Gallagher wrote: |
| Tubes are far less efficient than transistors, they do not produce more volume than a transistor.They will distort more when pushed,which may give the perception of more volume.If you've ever watched the signal on a scope as a tube amp approaches and becomes distorted you will see once distortion hits the signals amplitude actually decreases.The efficiency of the speaker has a big influence on volume, not a "quiet difference".Another misconception is that a 100 watt amp is twice as loud as a 50 watt amp,not so, there is about 2 to 3 db's difference,not much at all. |
+1 on all points. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 14 May 2021 4:47 am Amp watts question?
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Good stuff, Carl. I read that to tdouble the volume of an amp, you have to have 8 times the wattage.
Last edited by George Kimery on 14 May 2021 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 14 May 2021 5:57 am
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As long as they are measured the same way, clean (measured to the end of the linear region of the amp's response) Watts are clean Watts. There are sometimes sleights of hand in "specmanship" where an amp maker will do things to make an amp seem like it has more power than it does. But if we're talking true RMS Watts to true RMS Watts given a fixed input signal level, measured over a reasonable range of frequencies, at the point where saturation starts, then Watts are Watts. This is generally measured using an oscilloscope.
But amps are nonlinear - if pushed hard enough, the output response saturates in response to the input at some point. Tube amps typically still sound good far over the saturation point at which a solid-state amp will typically sound bad. In fact, if you want good sounding distortion, a tube amp may indeed effectively have more (sometimes a lot more) useful power than a solid-state amp rated at the same clean power level.
Loudness and perceived loudness (not always the same thing) are another thing. Of course, there is speaker efficiency. There is also the impact of whatever cabinet the speaker is housed in. Then there is also the frequency response of the amp. Some cheap guitar amps have virtually all their power in the midrange and treble frequencies, which can seem very loud but tinny. On the other hand, a full-range amp that puts a lot more focus on the bottom end, which doesn't necessarily translate to perceived loudness, may sound fuller but not as blaringly loud. Add Fletcher Munson to this, and it is clear the pure "power specmanship" doesn't really tell you what the amp sounds like or how loud it seems in real applications.
So I don't worry about specs too much. Running an amp through its paces using cabs of choice, with guitars I'm gonna use, tell me everything that matters to me. |
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Carl Gallagher
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 14 May 2021 7:54 am
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"Running an amp through its paces using cabs of choice, with guitars I'm gonna use, tell me everything that matters to me".
This is the bottom line.Because everything about "tone" is purely subjective.What sounds good to one may not sound good to another.As for distortion,with tube amps a big consideration is where the distortion originates.A hi gain amp like a Mesa Boogie gets its overdrive in the preamp and the output is biased so cold that there is little or no power tube saturation.It makes for a very thin, buzzy distortion often described as a beehive.I like a normal gain amp, like a Fender,to have the power tubes biased close to class A. When the amp is pushed the power tubes provide a warmer, rounder less harsh overdrive.As for solid state components like transistors,they are designed not to distort so when they do it is quite harsh,sterile sounding.Solid state amps that have a overdrive option get the intentional distortion from diode circuits.Not very musical, IMO. |
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Paul Arntson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 15 May 2021 12:11 pm
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power
Using "watts" to figure out how loud an amp sounds is tricky, in large part because the manufacturers' usage of the word "watt" is loosely defined. In some cases they have outright lied, as in the Crate power block of years past.
You almost have to try a particular amp and speaker combination to see if it feels loud enough in the situation where it is to be used.
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