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Topic: 10 and 12 string owners, hard to go back and forth? |
Jeff Rady
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 1:36 pm |
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This is a question for those who own both a 10 string and a 12 string steel. Is it hard to go back and forth between these instruments? I'm thinking it would be tough as your muscle memory is different for each. Can anybody tell me about their experience?
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Williams Guitar Purveyor, Owner of jeffsguitarandsteel.com |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 2:07 pm
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Once I went to the U-12 I found it awkward to sit down at a 10 string guitar. The 9th string is a B on a U-12 and a D on the 10 string. I no longer feel comfortable sitting at a 10 string but YMMV.
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I survived the sixties! |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 2:37 pm
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I'm with Len. Always did have a problem with picking groups so I stayed away from that 9th string on a 10 string guitar. But on my U-12 the 10th string is a B with a step and a half raise to D (on RKR, with a whole-step raise on pedal A) and I use that change a lot!
Conceptually, on an E9 10 string it would seem logical to make strings 9 and 10 B and G#, put a step and a half raise on 9 and move the whole-step A pedal raise there, then add the half-step B pedal raise on 10.Has anyone done that? How difficult would it be?
If it were feasible I'd love to do that with my very old Mullen S-10 3X3. That guitar was my main axe for years, sounded great and indestructible as a '55 Telecaster. It just sits in the case now,feeling all forlorn! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 3:35 pm
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| Dave Hopping wrote: |
| Conceptually, on an E9 10 string it would seem logical to make strings 9 and 10 B and G#, put a step and a half raise on 9 and move the whole-step A pedal raise there, then add the half-step B pedal raise on 10.Has anyone done that? How difficult would it be? |
I did exactly that on my grandson's GFI so that when he comes to visit he can play my uni (and vice versa). I don't know anything about Mullens but it was easy on the GFI.
The extra depth in the sound is well worth the effort.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 4:49 pm
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I don't know why you'd want to go back and forth? I switched to U-12 decades ago. I've sat down to a 10 string a few times since then and found it uncomfortable. Plus, the 10 just lacks the full capability that I found in a 12. However, I've taught a few students on S-10 while I sat behind my U-12 and didn't find it difficult.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 4:55 pm
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I have played D10s plus 12 and 14 universal guitars at the same time. Once acclimated, I have no trouble going back and forth as long as they have the same pedal/knee setup.
Your brain adjusts. |
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Benjamin Davidson
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 5:19 pm
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I adapted my Sd10 from E9th to a 10 string universal. String 9 is B, and string 10 is G#. I've adapted the guitar to a 9 pedal 9 Lever Universal, though without those lower 2 strings (I have a lever that drops that low G# down 2 steps to the 11th string E).
I did this to determine if the Universal Setup is for me, and undoubtably it was. The other reason it allows this guitar to be the lightweight travel guitar and keep a similar copedent when I have a professional 12 string built.
I suspect that two guitars, simliar copedents, with the only real change is between the two is the number of strings, wouldnt be much of an adaptation. I expect the switch between an Universal 12 and a 10 string E9th routinely, would be more difficult due to the strings rearranged.
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Justice Pro-Lite (9p9k) 10 String D13th Universal Tuning |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 5:26 pm
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I go between 12-string E9/B6 universal, 10-string E9/C6 D10, 8 and 6 string lap steels, slide guitar, and standard guitar in various tunings pretty routinely. I think one needs to develop a mindset for each that is separate from the others. If on a gig, centering on that mindset takes a tune or two to kick in for me. But I think one needs to have a reason to want to do it. If I didn't see the point, I think it would have been hard to motivate myself to do it. My rationale is that, for me, each is particularly good for different things, and I want to do those different things.
I imagine that someone who had decades in exclusively on a D10 with E9/C6, it might be a royal PITA because there would be a lot of autonomic stuff that they would be forced to change. So I don't necessarily think my experience is general. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 11:56 pm
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I actually use the twelve string bridge and nut on my MSA SuperSlide, but with the 1 and 12 slots empty - and 10 strings on it, because then it matches the spacing on my PedalMaster non-pedal* D10 console - for this very reason. I mean, I need all the hep I can get, right? Especially when I'm consoling my muse, muscle memory please apply here. So now I get flubby on the 8-strings, with the vast chasms between strings "Allooo! Is there another note over there somewhars?" I see shorebirds, send out a carrier pigeon etc.
*(Yar. If it wasn't for irony, we might not have no rony at all.)
~~~bing!~~~bing!~~~bing!~~~
Dave Hopping -
| Quote: |
| Conceptually, on an E9 10 string it would seem logical to make strings 9 and 10 B and G#, put a step and a half raise on 9 and move the whole-step A pedal raise there, then add the half-step B pedal raise on 10.Has anyone done that? How difficult would it be? |
Ummm... hmmm... Well I don't want to be like, uncouth or offensive here, but... ummm. It kinda sounds like that within you, there's a closeted C6th player yearning to breathe free? And soar and stuff. etc. And it's ALL RIGHT Mr. Hopping, we'll still support you regardless. (Does your wife know?) |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 7:41 am
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| Mine are both set up E9 (D string 9), so it’s not awkward in that way. The lever configuration is different, and the feel of the Carter S12 is different from the Stage One S10 - wider body, more pulls, different sound, etc. I think if I spent a few weeks on the 10-string and then went back to the 12, the adjustment would definitely take a few days. Just looking at two more strings gets me a little cross-eyed at first. Unlike some of you guys here that have been playing most of your lives, I just started four years ago, so both setups are still somewhat clouded in mystery anyway. |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 7:47 am
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Like Len, Dave, and Dennis, I am used to the feel of the 12-string so it would be hard to return to [just] 10. And I love the extended E 9!
Chris |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 8:05 am
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| David Mason wrote: |
I actually use the twelve string bridge and nut on my MSA SuperSlide, but with the 1 and 12 slots empty - and 10 strings on it, because then it matches the spacing on my PedalMaster non-pedal* D10 console - for this very reason. I mean, I need all the hep I can get, right? Especially when I'm consoling my muse, muscle memory please apply here. So now I get flubby on the 8-strings, with the vast chasms between strings "Allooo! Is there another note over there somewhars?" I see shorebirds, send out a carrier pigeon etc.
*(Yar. If it wasn't for irony, we might not have no rony at all.)
~~~bing!~~~bing!~~~bing!~~~
Dave Hopping -
| Quote: |
| Conceptually, on an E9 10 string it would seem logical to make strings 9 and 10 B and G#, put a step and a half raise on 9 and move the whole-step A pedal raise there, then add the half-step B pedal raise on 10.Has anyone done that? How difficult would it be? |
Ummm... hmmm... Well I don't want to be like, uncouth or offensive here, but... ummm. It kinda sounds like that within you, there's a closeted C6th player yearning to breathe free? And soar and stuff. etc. And it's ALL RIGHT Mr. Hopping, we'll still support you regardless. (Does your wife know?) |
Hmmm....... Dave, maybe you're right. Having that big ol' D safely in the bullpen and available only when I want him allows me to throw in the RKL E-Eb lever, make big chords and sneak a little B6 in when nobody's looking. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 8:23 am
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| This is a tiny hurdle in the scope of things. Many of you also play standard 6 string spanish guitar, 6 & 8 string lap steels, 4 and 5 string bass guitars....this is no different. It just takes a few seconds for your brain to adjust. |
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Jeff Rady
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 9:15 am
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This is helpful, I don't plan on going to a universal copedent. I would keep my copedent virtually the same (E9) just put another E on string 12 and G# on 11. I think having to teach is my main reason why I wouldn't go to a universal setup as I think I would confuse all my students as well as my self if I had to go between universal and E9. Thanks for sharing everybody! Much appreciated.
_________________
Williams Guitar Purveyor, Owner of jeffsguitarandsteel.com |
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rick andrews
From:
Westminster Co 80031
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Posted 16 Apr 2021 5:08 am
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| Jeff, I think that its more than a 10 string vs 12 string issue. Pedal and knee knee lever functions won't necessarily be the same. Muscle memory can be a disadvantage for some of us mere mortals. But I have steel legends like Reece Anderson,Doug Jernigan and Buddy Emmons make it look easy. |
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