Guitar cords/cables

Michael Lester · From: Illinois, USA

A respected Member here mentioned cable quality in a response to a question about getting better tone.

His comment made me curious about my own equipment.

Using the same amp settings for all, I attached / detached 7 guitar cords to my guitar. The cables varied in length from 3' - 10' and were from various brands. Some were logoed Fender, most were no name. A couple came from Guitar Center. At least one was over 30 years old. I set the volume pedal and never moved it.

For my test only, I have to admit that I could not hear any difference between one or the other. It may well be that all of my cords are 'consumer' grade and simply pass the signal through without regard for the best reproduction. In other words, they were all mediocre.

Looking at 'Pro' level cords on the web, I see some cables like Lava and Mogami priced well into the $50 range for a 10' cord. Over $150 for 20'.

I hope some of you will help me understand the difference. The cable itself? The insulation? The terminal ends? Life span? Construction?

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

There are some differences between guitar signal-level cables. As far as I'm concerned, the main issues are construction - can they hold up to the kind of abuse they will inevitably get at gigs - and resistance and capacitance per unit length. The longer the cable, the more those matter - more resistance will tend to degrade the signal level and more capacitance will tend to filter out the high frequencies.

However, decisions about what cable sounds "good" are a matter of personal taste. Some players, some guitars, and some amps tend, to me, to sound better with different types of cables. To increase brightness, I'd go with a lower capacitance cable. To tame harsh high end, a somewhat higher capacitance cable might help. I think it's easier/better to fix the signal before it hits any effects and amp, than after.

Unless I decide to buy a 75-100' guitar cable to do a crowd walk, I will never own a $50 and up guitar cable. And for 30 years, I've used a wireless for that. Good cables can be had for $15-25 for a typical 10-20' cable. Sometimes cheaper when on sale.

George L's are preferred by many pedal steel players because they have a pretty low capacitance and deliver a nice clean signal. I especially like them for short runs between pedal steel, volume pedal, effects board, and amp. For a low-capacitance cable on a budget, I used Quantum Audio Design Q-2100C "oxygen-free" cables for quite a while. I still have the ones I bought almost 20 years ago, still working fine. I also picked up some Kirlin woven-tweed cables when MF was blowing them out a couple of years ago. I really like them, but I don't know where to get them at this point. Glad I bought a bunch.

But with all that said, Jimi Hendrix used those coily cords with high capacitance. I never felt his tone suffered in the slightest. His clean tone on a Stratocaster was magnificent. In the end, everything matters and cords are just one part of it. I'd avoid really crappy cheap cables with molded ends (IMO the kiss of death for a cable), cruddy shielding, and poor soldering. If you can, open up the plug end and look at the soldering. Some are junk. But most professional grade cables can be worked with. My opinion.

A thread on this from a couple of years ago - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=344972

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Most people can tell a difference between the commonly available guitar cables and the Geo L's. If you have access to one of those, I'd be interested in your findings.

George Biner · From: Los Angeles, CA

some things that weren't mentioned:

0. I think the only way to do a listening test is to A/B it -- if you have to change the cable, too much time has passed -- A/B'g will show differences very clearly

1. shielding -- you want enough shield coverage to be effective -- I've seen cables with very poor shielding and they are noisy in noisy environments (fluorescent lighting)

2. "lay" of the cable - when you coil the cable, does it fight you or does it lay easily -- you can only tell this in person -- cheap, inflexible cables suck -- tweed is good for this, so is Mogami (Mogami's market is high end studios, good stuff but $)

3. George L's are also popular because you can install the ends yourself -- I don't use them cuz that's not an advantage to me, but they must be good because everybody uses them

4. I personally would avoid anything from Monster or people like that that are basically in the business of propaganda -- (for example I think that "directional" and oxygen-free cables are total BS, just my opinion) -- ProCo, Whirlwind, and Hosa all make great pro cables (stay away from Monoprice, I've had lots of their audio cables fail)
_________________
Guacamole Mafia - acoustic harmony duo
Electrical engineer / amp tech in West Los Angeles -- I fix Peaveys
"Now there is a snappy sounding instrument. That f****r really sings." - Jerry Garcia

Michael Lester · From: Illinois, USA

Thanks for your great responses. Good information from all.

I'm going to research George L, Proco, Whirlwind, and Hosa. I'll report back.

Michael

Bill Ferguson · From: Milton, FL USA

Micheal,

If you would like to try a set of George L's cables, I will be happy to send you a set 3' & 10" to try. If you like them, you can pay me, if not just ship them back.

And yep, George L's are kindof pricey, but IMHO, worth every penny.

Why would I want to use cheap cables with a 5-7K steel guitar rig.

If you want to take me up on the offer, just drop me an EMAIL bferguson1947@gmail.com
_________________
AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter.

ajm · From: Los Angeles

To add to what Dave and George said........

Over the years Guitar Player Magazine has done several cable "shoot outs".
They post the specs of the cable in capacitance per foot, sweep them on a spectrum analyzer, and give their own actual playing opinions on the sound of the various cables.
They are in all price ranges, construction types, etc.
Maybe you can find one of the articles on line on their web site.
To cut to the chase: They always give the George L's high marks in most categories.

In general, it seems that per their research, it is sometimes hard to come up with a connection between capacitance/foot versus sound/high end roll off.
I would think that would be the main driver, but maybe not. (This assumes equal cable lengths between two cables being compared.)

As for 3 feet or 10 feet: Unless you have the hearing of a white tail or your family dog, I'd be pretty surprised if you can tell the difference between several 3 foot cables.
10 foot? Maybe, but that would also be a stretch.

George made IMO a very good point about A/B'ing cables. But this goes for ANYTHING that you are comparing, PARTICULARLY pickups.
By the time you switch cables/pickups/etc, you've forgotten what the other sounded like.
You need to make a recording of them so that you can switch back and forth on the fly when you play it back.

I've posted about this next rant several times before.

Lastly, it always amazes me when I see guys looking at cables as the cause, when they have several effects hooked up between guitar and amp. This goes mainly for the six string breed, but steel players are also not to be excluded.
If a single cable and its length were all that were involved this would be an easy problem to fix.
But you often have several effects in the chain, often in a pedal board.
It's fancy and looks good an all, but did these guys go through each effect and look at the switching/electronics/impedances? (I have a feeling that I know the answer about 99% of the time.)
And these guys are sometimes "pros" on Youtube telling people how to build a pedal board.

Yes, a single volume pedal can introduce problems as well, ESPECIALLY a passive volume pedal.
These effects can have different switching types: True bypass, hard wire bypass, electronic FET switching bypass, etc. None of these are a cure all, and can all cause a problem by introducing different impedances/gains/etc.
Just because an effect has a buffer does not mean that your problems are solved. Brian Wampler has a good video on Youtube of what can happen if you hook up several pedals with buffered FET bypass together.

All of this is one reason that I use a true bypass switcher for my way too many effects (yeah, you guessed it, I'm a six stringer, primarily).
I'll also mention that I have a true bypass box for the effects in front of the amp, and another for the effects in the effects loop. (Effects loops can also cause problems if they are not done right, which is a whole 'nuther subject.)

A true bypass box is not that expensive, especially if you can find one used on Craigslist.
It's probably less than any single effect on the average pedal board.
Yes, the 3PDT switches can wear out.
However, there are several vendors that offer relay true bypass modules. An added benefit of these is that they use silent switches, so you don't get that "ca-chunk" any more.
The relay modules also are not super expensive (unless you're doing a bunch of them).
I replaced the 3PDT mechanical switches with these in one of my true bypass boxes, and really like it.

OK, semi-rant over.
What was the original topic again?
Oh yeah......cables.

Bill Ferguson · From: Milton, FL USA

Good post ajm.

I agree `100% about effects changing your tone. Maybe not much, but every one does to some extent. Then you stack several and all of a sudden, you tone sucks.

I've tried every effect out there and I continue to go back to steel, volume pedal and amp. I don't even insert a delay unless it is a song that needs it, then I insert it into the chain.
_________________
AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter.

Michael Lester · From: Illinois, USA

Again, thank you for your comments.

I spent and hour this morning reading comparisons, watching YouTube video comparisons and searching by brand names.

It is dizzying to say the least.

Searching 10' instrument cables by
George L
Proco
Hosa
Mogami
Whirlwind
Planet Waves
Transit Lab
Runway Audio

I found it very difficult to understand what the differences in cable, insulation, wire, and 'ends' were. In large part because so much of the verbiage is in 'cablespeak' - a language not allowed at the consumer level.

Transit Lab cable has people swooning. It ought to for $250 for 10'.

10' George L, Proco, Mogami, and Whirlwind were pretty close to $50 all around - not counting shipping. Several of these were available on Amazon for less w/Prime shipping benefits.

The tests done on YouTube were mixed in my view. Probably the most telling demo was one where the amp was turned up to 'wacky' and they recorded the hum and hiss without playing an instrument. Cheap cables really did make a lot of noise compared to the pricey ones.

As far as tone comparison on YouTube, I had to take the tester's word for it. While I have a good sound system hooked to my computer, it's not audiophile quality. He said he could hear the difference playing a guitar lick - I couldn't except for the side-by-side comparison between the cheapest $9 Fender cable and the $250 Transit Lab.

Still learning about this important topic.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I used George L's cable for close to 38 years. From the time they were first introduced until last year. Its low capacitance (25pf per foot measured with a capacitance tester). Compared to the Belden (8410 or 8412 don't remember) it opened up, at the time, missing high frequencies. I started using Peavey steel guitar amps about the same time and always seemed to have too much highs, and didn't equate that with the George L's cables.

Fast forward three years ago and I bought a Quilter Steelaire amp and it too had too many highs and it was sold. I again didn't equate that to the George L's cables. Last year I had a loaner Quilter Tone Block 202 amp (same as used with the Quilter Travis Toy 12). I was still using George L's cables and the TB 202 again had too many highs for my taste. Last summer I was able to try a full Travis Toy 12 amp (TB 202 amp and Eminence Double T12 speaker). I used my GFI Ultra D-10 that had "standard" (run of the mill no name cables) and to my surprise "there was my sound". I tried some George L's cables and the too many highs was back. For me standard cables from now on. This is coming from someone that is an electronics tech and a former amplifier tech (in Nashville).

Ron Shalita · From: California, USA

Cables have never made a difference to me as far as I know, if it did I had a tone control to fix whatever I was missing..
_________________
Been playing all of my life, Lead Guitar, and Pedal Steel, sing Lead and Harmony.. play other Instruments also but I hate to admit to it..

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I've used all kinds over the years and am fine with standard cables, with good plugs.

I avoid the George-Ls only because, although many swear by them, there are enough folks who report mechanical issues that I pass on them. I don't care why they have issues...just that they do.

I've recently discovered these folks who, for very reasonable prices, custom-make all kinds of cables using good Mogami wire and high-quality connectors...get the exact length you want, right-angle or straight, mono or stereo...fast turnaround.

https://eventhorizon-srv.com/shop/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA7NKBBhDBARIsAHbXCB5O-y6FVY3K6TGamPdxOLSfvqiM5Lw5UDZP4BvKZAUnvmJC6WyKLQAaApuLEALw_wcB
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor

Michael Lester · From: Illinois, USA

I'm going to buy a set of George L cables based on the comments here. I'll report back once I've had a chance to noodle with them for awhile.

Michael Lester

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Another good cable to look at is Live Wire.

I use George L cables for:

Guitar>Sarno FreeLoader>Goodrich Pot Pedal>EH Holy Grail Reverb

And then a Live Wire cable back to the amp.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Larry Hobson · From: Valley Grande (Selma) Al USA

Tone discussions usually go in many directions. Interesting sometimes. Discussions on the physical aspects or duribility of different cables led me to check my own cables. Acquired some cable from Bill Lawrence years ago (Lawrence 1600 by Belden +)with associated brass plugs . Later George L cable and plugs. I am using these still today. The Lawrence cable may well be around 40 yrs. old. From time to time the plugs will need to be reinstalled,other than that they just keep on going. As related to tone, this thread discussion has raised my interest,plan on doing an A/B test as soon as I can borrow someone's different cable .

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

In my set-ups only the first cable – between PU and buffer-amp – has an effect on tone/treble, and about half of that length is the length of cable that is built into the PSG itself.

From the buffer, via (low-impedant) VP and potential effects, the feed-impedance is so low that pretty much any 10 to 30 feet cable will "sound" the same. I may not even bother to use screened cables if I need longer lengths to reach the amp, and since capacitance is much lower in Twisted-Pair cables than in screened ones I can get away with more than long enough "T-P" cables for any sensible use without any loss or noise-induction.

Godfrey Arthur · From: 3rd Rock

Everything affects everything.

Cables no matter the cost or build all affect the signal.

Even the power generation from your outlet is never exactly the same day to day, hour to hour.

Your ears are different every day you get out of bed.

To think you can narrow down to a specific set of equipment is mainly expedience.

George L's is coax cable. The same used in cable TV systems.

Get your sound the way you like it. But expecting to attain the same sound copying other's setups is not always fool proof.

How one set up played in one section of conus performs like is going to be different under another area of the country's grid for starters.

Too many variables. We end up settling and just make sure we get in the ball park and play good music.

But non sturdy cables on a gig where you're moving a lot might present some issues sooner than a better constructed cable. Doesn't mean the better made cable will sound the way you like it though so you choose your poison.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7

Larry Hopkins · From: Lubbock Texas USA

I bought some of the BULLET SOLDERLESS CABLES,from ERV NIEHAUS here on the forum ,really tuff and work great,really happy with them, he will make them whatever length you need ,and ERV Is great to work with Very Happy

Larry
:
_________________
,peavey renown 115,Vegas 400, Peavey envoy, peavy bandit 65 head,baby bloomer
2 -Nashville 400, Emmons SD-10 legrande lll ,Emmons Black Rock ,sho-bud pac a seat,,Jackson Madison 63;

Bill Rowlett · From: Russellville, AR, USA

I've been using the Bill Lawrence / George L cables for many years and like the clarity. I only use the GL silver connectors as the BL bronze ones did cause some bi/metallic corrosion issues if left in the jack for extended periods.

I've had a few times where I had to re tighten the knob on the right angle plugs and I sometimes check that as I'm setting up. If I accidentally trip over a cord and damage the connection, it's a simple matter to clip the damaged end and reattach the connector without any soldering.

I've had the same GL chords for 20 years and still use them. I can't count the regular guitar cables that I've had to throw away or rebuild because of cable failure.

The biggest reason to use them is the small size. A 3' and 10' fold up in my pack seat like their not even there. My compact pedal board is also wired with them.

Bill

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Larry,
Bless your heart!
Thanks for the endorsement. Very Happy

Erv

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I have been using canare cable with neutrik connectors for a while now. They are pretty easy to solder or you can have them made to order from Markertek.
_________________
Bob

George Seymour · From: Notown, Vermont, USA

Michael Lester · From: Illinois, USA

That sound you hear is me slapping my forehead with the palm of my hand. How did I let so many years go by without exploring this link of the chain.

Forum regular Bill Ferguson sent me two 3' and a 10' George L cable set.

I pledge to all of you interested in this topic that this is the truth as I know it...

These cables are night and day ahead of the generic / brand name cords I've been using for several decades.

Before I plugged them in I ran through several of the standard warm up tunes I seem to fall into every time I sit down.

I replaced my standard Guitar Center brand cords with the George L's and went through the same routine.

The George L's are cleaner and crisper.
There's better clarity between notes.
The tone is warmer.

As a former non-believer it seems unlikely - but my guitar sounds better. I don't know how or why, I just know that it does. What's even more troubling is that I thought I had my tone dialed in except for a few notes that were a little 'whiney' to my ear. Those notes are less obvious now.

Thanks Bill Ferguson for your help.

If you doubt my experience, try it yourself. Bill made it real easy to test.

Michael Lester

Bill Ferguson · From: Milton, FL USA

Thanks so much for the kind words Michael.

Welcome to the thousands (or millions) of happy George L's products.
_________________
AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter.

Forum Index > Electronics	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic