Question about buying my first pedal steel

David DeLoach · From: Tennessee, USA

Howdy.

I'm hoping to buy my first pedal steel this year. Probably a S10 (although I'd love a D10 if I have the budget).

I've played 8 string lap steel pretty seriously for a few years now and would like to give a shot at pedal steel.

Probably a dumb question, but if I were to use my own tuning (not C6 or E9) how flexible are the pedal and knee lever assignments as to how high/low they go and which strings they impact? Is that set up during the build and permanent, or can pedal and knee lever string assignments/functionality be changed?

Thanks for any input!

David
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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Any pro guitar can assign any pedal and any lever to any string, multiple times. How much a string can be raised or lowered depends on the brand of guitar, on the gauge of the string and on whether the string is plain or wound. It is definitely not infinite. Raises and lowers are limited by the physics of the leverage of the pulling mechanism. In addition, raises are limited by the physical breaking point of the string.

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

It can be set up almost any way you want, given the physical limitations mentioned above. Go to the LINKS tab on the top the page and look at the varied copedents listed there. Youâ€™ll see many variations on E9, E7, C6, B6, Bb6 Etc.
If you search through the Forum youâ€™ll encounter endless discussions about the multitude of variations pedal steel is capable of. Thereâ€™s lots of room for individuality in the design.
Good luck with your endeavor. Youâ€™ll see that there have been many attempts to re-invent the wheel.
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Ake Banksell · From: Stockholm, Sweden

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Amplifying the point about reinventing the wheel -- it is easy and not uncommon to study a tuning and believe that one can devise something that better suits them and I have no problem at all with that. But it is also not uncommon that this belief comes from not having a practical understanding of existing tunings (as in actually playing the thing as opposed to studying on it, on paper). The existing tunings are not necessarily the be-all & end-all of human knowledge but....they have evolved into powerful systems.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

I think this, most steels can lower or raise at least a whole tone, some tri-tone, limiting factor maybe the string itself. I'd have to go with a steel that has easily removable bell cranks such as the mullen and others of newer crop steels, that way you can tinker all day without the headaches of extensive work to change your co-ped.

I think every player should fulfill his/her curiosity with tuning and set-up idea's, one must exhaust those thoughts and expressions, if it dosen't work you can always pursue a standardized set up, this is where the ease of bell crank removal comes into play.

It is hard to reinvent the wheel, but you never know you might reinvent the steel.
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K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Iâ€™m sure many here are curious about what your proposed tuning would be. There are plenty of people here willing to help you accomplish your goals and provide excellent technical, theoretical and mechanical advice. The idea to get a steel that is easily changed around is an excellent one. Iâ€™d have to add Fender to that list. Although many would consider them antiquated and incapable of modern tuning applications, I am a fan and have owned several. Perhaps their greatest advantage is that their setups are really easy to change quickly so they readily lend themselves to experimentation.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Dave Stroud · From: Texas

I'll reinforce what others have said. String changes are not permanent (possible exception being the carter starter), but they're also not something you'll want to change daily. A lot of tuning changes can take several hours.

Others can feel free to correct me, but as a rule of thumb you probably wouldn't want to move more than 3 or 4 strings at a time on a single pedal or lever. More than that starts getting heavy.

To be more specific about the physical limitations of your steel - for raising a string, the upper limit is probably 3 half-steps (maybe 4). For lowering a string, you could go more since you don't risk breaking the string.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Welcome to the world of The Pedal Steel Guitar.
Many previous posts have a lot of great information.
From your post you will need to pick a guitar very carefully.
I suggest you look at the underside of guitars you are considering.
You will want a guitar with square cross rods that are easy to add and remove, If you want to move pulls.
1 screw removal and replacement of bell cranks.
You may want to consider only guitars of builders which are still in production and parts are easy to order and obtain.
You may want to consider a guitar with split tuning, If you want multiple lowers on certain strings.

Good Luck in your journey to play Pedal Steel Guitar.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Since you're new to this, you want to start off with a basic instrument to learn on. Now, I have never played either a Stage One or it's big bother, the Encore, and cannot speak from personal experience, But they both have an excellent reputation.

It has been suggested that you want a guitar on which the setup can easily be changed. I basically agree with that, but as a new player, you needn't concern yourself with that. For now, you have a boatload of information you need to learn, and a couple of years of woodshedding before you should start thinking about it.

The Stage One has a fixed copedant, which means you can;t change it. The Encore has a different system, that allows you to change stuff around. Eventually, you will want this, and you might consider getting an Encore with an eye toward that day.

But for now, and for the next 2 or 3 years at least, this is not something you should think about. EVERYBODY without exception who uses a Stage One raves about it. Apparently it's far more than a student guitar, and will be good enough to use in gigs, when you get them.
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Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

Here's my advice. Buy the best used guitar you can afford. And Buy a D-10 (or a uni if you're into that).

I enjoy C6 more then E9, and if you buy used, you won't lose much more than a few hundy if you have to sell.

Have fun!

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

Here's my advice. Buy the best used guitar you can afford. And Buy a D-10 (or a uni I you'r into that).

I enjoy C6 more then E9, and if you buy used, you won't lose much more than a few hundy if you have to sell.

Have fun!

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Dear David - You ask a very interesting question. 98 and nine tenths percent of the guitars cannot be just changed on a whim; They can be changed in an hour or two, or a day or two, or a week or two, and some not at all (Encore, and Stage One). There is one exception that I know of - the Fender cable steels; The pedal arrangement can be changed in 10 minutes on those old dinosaurs; but they have a limited amount of changes compared to more modern steels.

How about your music style however? What do like to play? What do you admire? What tuning have you been using on the 8 string lap steel?

E9th is the "standard" country tuning, and about 80% of instructional material is for E9th; The rest is for C6th, and then there's some Sacred Steel tunings as well.

If you are a genius and you can invent your own tunings and pedal set ups, and then play them flawlessly with your hands, your feet, and your knees, then the sky is the limit. But getting back to your original question, you are not going to be able to change the set up everyday when you get a new idea, 'cause re-rodding a guitar is PD complicated. Otherwise you need to pick one of the main variants, E9 or C6th, and there are some standard pedal set ups that have already been discovered and invented.

To re-invent the wheel takes a genius. Most folks start out with the E9th neck or the c6th neck, they use the standard pedal set ups, and learn the basics and go from there. 12 string guitars have both C6th and E9th possibilities on one guitar. The double necks have one neck for E9th and one neck for C6th;
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Al Evans · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Mike Perlowin has corrected me regarding the Encore. Thanks Mike.
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Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

It seems that David is an accomplished professional musician who has been on stage at the Opry a time or two.

So when he says "My own tuning", I think he really means "My own tuning";

The easiest guitar to do that with would be a Fender cable guitar. Especially a 10 string model.

Dear David - If you want a satisfactory pedal steel experience, get the newest single neck E9th guitar you can afford. If you want to experiment with tunings and pedal arrangements both, get an old Fender, there's 8 stringers and 10 stringers to be had every 90 days or so. I disparaged them as dinosaurs, but they do work, and my own Fender is quite beautiful, with a lacquer polish and shiny chrome. Its just heavy as a horse, that's all.
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Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Al Evans, since you already an MSA Legend and a Mullen G2, perhaps you could part with the Encore and sell it to David.
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Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Dear David - I see that you are in Brentwood TN; There is a very knowledgeable pedal steel guitar dealer in nearby La Vergne, Mr. Johnnie King, who has built and rebuilt and invented guitars himself. Why not call or visit Mr. King and run some of your ideas by him and see what he thinks? He could even build you a new one, he has built some of his own models before. In that case you could get the best of all worlds, a relatively inexpensive NEW guitar built to your own tuning.

Mr. King is a great guy and he has pedal steel in his veins he knows so much.
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Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.

Al Evans · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

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