Using an acoustic guitar as a dobro? - Update

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I have a nice Ibanez acoustic/electric guitar that I really can't play due to my left hand. Has anyone used a nut extender so it could be played like a dobro? There are opportunities for acoustic music here and I can't afford a resonator. My band leader would like to do some of these gigs with me. Hauling a pedal steel rig is just too much.

What about using a G dobro tuning on it.

Any advice.
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Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

Which model Ibanez is it? Nut extenders are available pretty widely and generally do a good job (depending on the width of the neck).
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K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Many people have done things like that. However you have to expect that, even with lighter gauge strings, the neck will probably warp from the tension.
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Brooks Montgomery · From: Idaho, USA

â€œG dobro tuningâ€ puts a lot of stress on the guitar. Iâ€™d suggest open D, or if you want a similar stacked triad like G â€œdobroâ€, drop it down to FACFAC (thatâ€™s what Rob Ickes does with one of his old family guitars).

You can get some great sound out of a regular guitar. Kelly Joe Phelps, Harry Manx, and others do great things on them.
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David Venzke · From: SE Michigan, USA

I've done this with an inexpensive Dreadnought size guitar. I put a set of medium strings (13-56) on it and tuned it to open G (L-H: DGDGBD). It did what I needed/wanted at the time, without warping the neck or bellying up the body. Keep the string gauges in the "normal" range for an acoustic guitar and you should be fine.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

+1 to what David V said.

I put standard medium gauge strings on my round neck dobro, and GBDGBD tuning works fine on it, no neck warpage and good intonation.

If you us a nut adapter on a standard guitar, you might have some intonation issues as you go up the neck because of the bridge saddle height being a bit lower than the nut. You could get a saddle blank and shave to a more appropriate height, without having it slip out of the slot.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

A saddle thatâ€™s even just a 16th higher would help the intonation without putting too much more stress on the pins. Plus, with a new saddle blank, you could leave the top of it flat.

Back to string gauges. Youâ€™ll probably find standard medium gauge strings just donâ€™t quite cut it, especially on the treble side. Maybe get a custom set that is not too heavy on the bottom (52-42-35) but beefier than average on top, like 26w-20-16 for strings 3-2-1. That should get you a little closer to the square neck sound and feel. If it starts feeling tight when tuning, I would probably give it up. It should be okay though, if itâ€™s a good guitar. Youâ€™re only going to D on that .016 after all. Keep an eye on the neck for a couple days after you make all your changes and see if a truss rod adjustment is in order.

Fred · From: Amesbury, MA

Iâ€™ve used nut raisers on a few guitars over the years. Intonation has never been an issue. Even with perfectly strings perfectly level to the fretboard you have an intonated bridge. Just like on any other steel guitar Iâ€™ve played, my eyes get me close and my ears do the real intonation.

As for string gauges, just be careful. Just remember that low string in a Dobro set is an E string tuned up to G. I always used something from the E family of tunings. E, E7, C#m, F#9.

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

If you are playing "plugged in" a nut riser and medium gage guitar strings may be a perfect and economic solution. I'd use lo-bass G or D as a starting point. It won't sound or feel like a Dobro, but more like a Weissenborn guitar. Lighter bar pressure, gentler picking with right hand. Turn it up and let the amp do the work.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

If you want it to sound like a resonator I suggest your getting that resonator pedal from Tom Bradshaw. Very Happy

Erv

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Obviously no matter what advice you get here, somebody is gonna come along and cry bs based on their experience. Just use your own judgment and give it a whack.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I don't expect it to sound like a resonator. I do have an EQ pedal I use for "dobro" sounds on my PSG. I would try that on it. Mainly, I just want to be able to play with a bar. I am not, and never will be a guitar player. I may just decide to sell it.
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

There is no problem setting up a standard guitar to play on the lap in any tuning that you like if you simply use an extension nut and choose your strings appropriately. I would absolutely not use a standard set of squareneck resonator strings for standard resonator = GBDGBD lo-hi tuning - you can pull the neck right out out of the neck joint! I did that once with a super-cheap Johnson round-neck resonator. It didn't matter that much, but it was annoying and I consequently could only use the guitar for lap playing.

Most decent modern acoustics can handle the tension created by a set of typical light-gauge acoustic bronze/phosphor-bronze strings in the vicinity of 12p,16p,24w,32w,42w,52w for standard tuning E B G D A E hi-lo. If you use a string tension calculator like this one - https://tension.stringjoy.com/ or the D'Addario string tension chart here - https://www.daddario.com/globalassets/pdfs/accessories/tension_chart_13934.pdf, you can see this comes out in the general range of 165 to 175 pounds-force tension on a typical acoustic guitar scale of 25-25.5 inches. This is in the ballpark of 27-28 pounds per string. I think you're pretty safe if you keep your string tensions in that range or lower.

So using the same tension calculator/chart approach, you can feed any scale length, tuning, and string gauges and figure out the approximate tension. I string guitars up in all kinds of whacky tunings for slide and fingerstyle playing and generally try to keep string tensions fairly equal. Using the tension calculator referenced and standard resonator G tuning GBDGBD lo-hi, I came up with a set around 14p, 17p, 24w, 32w, 38w, 48w hi-lo for a total tension of about 167 pounds on a 25" scale guitar, with fairly uniform tension on each string. You can diddle with the specific gauges in the calculator. I did this for nickel-wound strings because there is a larger choice of gauges. The 80-20/phosphor-bronze strings come out a bit higher if you're gonna use a piezo pickup. But if you're using a magnetic pickup, you're sorta stuck with nickel/stainless wound for the pickup to work properly.

Extension nuts are available almost anywhere in the $5-8 range. Places like MF, Sweetwater are good since they don't charge shipping on small items. I always keep an extension nut in my gig bag in case I decide, for whatever reason, I want to put a standard guitar on my lap.

If you're gonna use an acoustic guitar exclusively for lap or slide playing, I also concur with the idea of replacing the bridge saddle with a moderately (not very) high one that is flat all the way across. But I don't think a new saddle is critical at all.

If you do put in a new saddle, just remember to keep the top of the saddle well-rounded to avoid the sitar effect. I'd just get an already shaped saddle in the ballpark size-wise and do any fine adjustments with sandpaper, and keep the original saddle so you have one for standard playing, for yourself or in case you want to sell the guitar.

James Kerr · From: Scotland, UK

Here is my 1965 Hofner Guitar playing in D. I just fitted a piece of ally angle to lift the strings at the Nut a little. The Guitar appears in the second part of the Video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcVEH_fo6ko

James kerr

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Thanks James. That was awesome.

Thanks Dave for those links and other info.

I already have a nut extender (made by Grover) coming. I am thinking of an open E tuning.

Even though Montana (at least around me) is starting to open up for live music, most of the places that featured live bands are coming back just hiring singles or duets, until they can get to where they can afford to hire bands. There are tons of microbreweries and small bars here that have single or duet acts that play regularly (or at least will soon). My band leader and I have done a few duet gigs already (before the Mexican beer ailment arrived), but acoustic guitar, drum machine, and pedal steel just wasn't feasible. The object is less equipment, faster setup in less space, faster teardowns. Eventually I will get another Dobro. I really like the sound of the acoustic slide playing in James' video too. I picked up a cheap-o mandolin and have spent a few months learning some stuff on it, but I still have the issues with my left hand that keeps me from really getting good on regular guitar. And with the 6 surgeries I have had on my right hand and arm, holding a regular guitar pick is difficult. Plus, being retired/disabled here alone in Montana is really boring at times. These will be new adventures for me.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I did a whole album of acoustic guitar with a raised nut. It doesn't sound like a dobro, but it is a nice tone. Maybe with the right electronics.

https://b0blee.bandcamp.com/album/stella
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David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

I've used nut extenders on regular guitars for years. As others have said, I use medium gauge guitar strings and tune to Hawaiian "Low G" tuning. Really no different than the pre-resonator Hawaiian guitars like the Martins, some of the Oahus, etc. I like the sound.

Dave

Gary Spaeth · From: Wisconsin, USA

if you had an old stella you wouldn't need to raise the nut. ha

Joe Breeden · From: Virginia, USA

Bob, I really liked what you did on that album. What tuning did you use.

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

1930 Supertone, round neck, keys turned over....

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Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Well, I raised the nut and tuned to an E dobro type tuning. Low to high, E G# B E G# B. It works OK. I would like the strings a little tighter, but this is OK.

But, I have never been good at holding the guitar on my lap. So, I have always stood up to play dobro. But that won't work with this guitar. It's an acoustic/ electric with the controls on the side, and they make contact with my body, adjusting the controls . Maybe playing it like normal with a finger slide, like a stand-up slide guitar player would work. And then, and this is probably a better idea, go ahead and play it in the normal standing dobro position, using a mic and not the internal Fishman system.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Richard, I play a round neck dobro in the seated position with a strap. Without the strap it flops all over the place. I canâ€™t play it standing up.

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