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Topic: Starting out with a PSG, what accessories should accompany? |
Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2021 8:03 pm |
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So it looks like I will end up with a PSG shortly if all goes well. I've been playing lap steel for just a little bit since July 2020, and have some things. But after taking a while of getting accessories, some I wish I got a lot earlier!
I'm curious, what accessories should I get to accompany the PSG in anticipation?
So far I've figured(keeping it objective and then I'll put my subjectiveness following):
Volume Pedal
Amp
Effects
Fingerpicks/thumbpick(s)
Seat/stool
Tuner
Slide
Tuning tool
On that, the PSG I'm looking at an EMCI D-10(not sure I need a second neck, but 2 necks are better than one, no?). I'm curious to how my current accessories will adapt to PSG:
Volume: the only volume pedal I've got so far is a Telray/Morley Volume Boost, and a Telray Power wah that I can use as a volume, but should I get something else? I've read Telonics are the go to... but they're a bit out of my budget unfortunately. How are the Lehle ones? I found one that is within my budget, but used. Should I be worried about replacing pots? Are the telrays good enough? Has anyone done photo-resister volume pedals like the Morleys?
Amp:... ok ok, I know this should be in the other forum(should the whole thing be on it?)...but thought I might as well include it. How relevant is Solid state vs tube. Amp wise I've got a Fender Blues Jr, a Blackheart Little Giant, Pignose, and a Gibson RET77 that I need to fix up a little. I was thinking selling one of the little tube guys and picking up a peavey nashville 400... is the change in tone that worth having one of these?
Effects:
What kind of pedals are most suited for PSG? My current little pedalboard is:
EQ: Boss GE-7, Dunlop Fuzzface Mini(germanium), Polymoon Meris, and a Ventris Dual Reverb
Is a fuzz suitable for pedal? I like using it with my Gibson EH 185 and the volume and tone knobs... I guess the volume pedal takes care of this?
Also what about compression? or other items to look at?
Fingerpicks/thumbpick(s)
I've got a slew of thumb picks, I am assuming that steel without pedals will translate over to PSGs just the same?
Seat/stool. This is my biggest question. What advise is there for getting a seat/stool. Should I go for a drum stool? or one of the fancy steel pedal seats? (I eyed the snakeskin one another forum member has and ....really damn want one...haha)
I'm 6'1"... I can test out drum stools, but pedal steel seats are something I can't test out. What heights do certain seats/stools fit best?
Tuner:
Right now I've got a TC electronic Polytune 3, and a Paterson StroboClip HD. I'm not as good as others to tune to harmonics, hoping one day to be. Will these work on? or should I think about selling them and going for one of the Paterson Strotuners with more tuning options to enter
Slide:
For 10 string will I need a larger slide? Right now I've got a Schubb SP2, Schubb GS1, an old stevens patent pending slide, a bunch of ones I wasted my money on amazon(the cheap cheap cheapo ones), and a BJS Jerry Byrd. Is it wiser to get a wider one?
Sorry for all the questions, and thank you for any responses. I want to get off on the right foot with this instrument, and want to make sure things are in order before so.
And if there are any things that you suggest on the store here, I'd love to support b0b and the forum. |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 12:02 am Here's the Basics
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Hi Ryan – A lot of your lap steel experience is relevant for pedal steel so congratulations on that. Here is what I think the basics are and my comments will be price driven; I will quote you the lowest common denominator, which you are gonna have to pay no matter what. You need a new bar, it will have to be a pedal steel bar; 7/8†around by 3 3/8s inches is the basic 10 string bar size; There’s Dunlap bars and Ernie Ball everything at Guitar Center for $25; just make sure it says Pedal Steel, its new, not used, and its chrome plated; or there’s more professional BJS bars on the net for $65-80; You can put the Dobro bars in your glove compartment to use in case of dire emergency, but otherwise they won’t do for the pedal steel. You need a basic volume pedal, like a Goodrich; new is $195 and used for $125 - 150; I got a Hilton for $125 used; Those are $275 new; I would look for something here on the forum; Your music store will sell you an Ernie Ball probably that does the same thing, but the connections are on the front of the those EB pedals, which is weird and quickly gets in the way; You won’t spend less than $100 for any of these, but you don’t have to pay $300 for Telonics VP either. Average is about $150; For a seat, you want to use the same seat every time, because it affects all your sight angles and body posture relative to the guitar, which helps to determine if you are playing in tune or not. You should try and sit with your belly button lined up to the 15th fret, every time the same spot; ANY seat is good, but it should be the SAME one; A piano bench for $29.99 at Guitar center is just as good as a $300 Pak a Seat; but make it the same one every time; Amp; You will get a million answers on this one; but you want AT LEAST the same equipment everyone else has got, which means either a Nashville 112 or Nashville 400; There’s always nice used ones for $350, and I got one for $150 one time; Tube guys have to have tube amps, which starts to get pricey; Either the 112 or the 400 will allow you to play live; The Blue's Jr will let you practice in the meantime; On all equipment, there’s always high end and there’s always low end, but without a bar, without a volume pedal, without an average amp, you can’t even get started, so that’s the basics.
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Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.
Last edited by Richard Alderson on 18 Jan 2021 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 12:25 am
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Strings,and extra strings.
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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William Carter
From:
Cedar Rapids, Iowa, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 7:01 am
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Your list is pretty complete with the exception of cables. You may assume that you already have some of those, but the standard for PSG seems to be “George L’s†cables. The wrong cables can have you fighting for the right tone and never understanding why you can’t get it if you never think to check the cables. I get mine from Bill Ferguson (Forum Member). You should be able to contact him on here. He has good prices and service.
You mentioned effects, but I don’t see where anybody specifically mentioned delay. The most common PSG effects are reverb (usually the spring reverb in a Peavey amp) and delay. The most popular delay pedal from what I have seen is Boss DD3, but I have the DD7 and it is almost identical.
As far as the stool, how much do you want to spend? I played for years with a keyboard stool from Guitar Center for around $40. I see people perfectly happy with drum thrones. If you are ready to spend the money, get a pack-a-seat built. The most popular one seems to be Steeler’s Choice. I also have one from Gruene Road Cases. Both are exceptional quality. There are a few differences in type of handles and round vs square legs. Call or email them. They are very helpful and willing to talk to you about what you need and make taller or shorter as needed.
The Peterson tuners are also a standard for PSG, and they have downloadable presets for the most popular tunings. The Stroboclip you have should work fine. Lots of PSG players use them. I have the stomp box version.
For the slide, the most popular is the 7/8†diameter, and they come in 10 and 12 string versions. The most popular one seems to be BJS. Steel Guitars of Canada has these in stock usually. Al Briscoe is very helpful and patient. He will talk you through picking out whatever accessories you need. The Canadian exchange rate can sometimes help you save a few dollars as well. BJS bars are not cheap, but he also has Dunlop if you aren’t ready to spend a lot. The prices listed on his website are in Canadian dollars, so if you think something seems high, just call him. It probably comes out to about the same as U.S. dealers after the rate conversion.
It is also very important to get the right volume pedal. Doug Earnest makes a very nice one at a reasonable price. It’s a flat $100, and I doubt you could get a better one, especially for the money. It’s very reliable and sounds right for PSG. Search online for Stage One steel guitars to find his website.
Lastly, the amp is what gave me the most frustration trying to build a proper setup. People on this forum will tell you that any amp will do, and that it’s all up to you. But if you are just starting off, and don’t want to spend thousands of dollars buying different amps to find “that†sound that you hear on recordings, just do yourself a favor and find a used Nashville 400. If you don’t like it, you will be able to get your money back. It’s also not as heavy as some of the others like Session 400 Limited or Session 500. If you have the money for a newer model like Nashville 112 or Session 115, go for it. You won’t be disappointed. They are much lighter. If you are new and don’t know what you want yet, I wouldn’t go out and spend the money on a Quilter or something high end until you are able to plug it in and try it out. Gary Sill is also another good person to talk to about PSG accessories. He is a forum member and has a website for Sill Music Supply. He will spend lots of time on the phone and be patient with you if you need help picking out accessories.
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ZumSteel D10, Mullen G2 SD12 Universal, Rittenberry SD10 |
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Bruce Bjork
From:
Southern Coast of Maine
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 9:16 am
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Volume Pedal - Stage one
Amp - USA Peavey Nashville 112 or BOSS Katana 100
Effects Freeloader
Fingerpicks/thumbpick(s) Fred Kelly White Slik Pick and National NP2 finger picks
Seat/stool Keyboard stool
Tuner Petersen
Slide NU-Generation Tone Bar
Tuning tool
_________________
Banjo, Dobro, Guild D-40, Telecaster, Justice Pro Lite 3x5, BOSS Katana 100, Peavey Nashville 112 in a Tommy Huff cabinet, Spark, FreeLoader, Baby Bloomer, Peterson StroboPlus HD, Stage One VP.
"Use the talents you possess; the woods would be very silent indeed if no birds sang but the best" |
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Patrick Huey
From:
Nacogdoches, Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 10:09 am
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I would highly recommend an actual pedal steel guitar pack-a-seat as they are
1)built to proper height for playing steel.
2)comfortable to sit on for long periods
3)the legs fold up neatly and there is a carrying handle for easy transport
4)made w/ dedicated storage compartments for all your extra loose stuff like volume pedal, cables, strings,etc.
I have a Steeler’s Choice with back rest. They make them with extra side box Which is great to keep extra strings in and string winder so if you break a string while playing you can reach in the side box and access them without having to get up and actually open your seat. Also make them with added built in power strip if you want.
Jimmy Hudson makes a great quality affordable pack a seat as well.
Effects generally a Boss DD-3 delay and reverb are all you need although the Peavey Pro-Fex II is a super all around rack mount multi effects processor that has a ton of steel specific settings. These come up regularly for sale used on the Forum here.
You can find good used Peavey Nashville 400’s, Vegas 400’s, Session 500’s etc for sale here as well. All specifically designed for pedal steel.
You will not be able to really use a Schubb you want a full sized tone bar. Dunlop is a good, affordable starting point but I would recommend after determining the most comfortable size and weight for your hand I would break down in order a good BJS bar. Expensive kinda but worth it.
Also a cordless battery powered string winder is a must have. A good Ernie Ball Power Peg is $25-$35 or so. I would not recommend the attachment that goes on a cordless drill as the high rpm of a cordless drill can possibly damage the gears on tuning keys. The Ernie Balls are made to run at low enough RPM and torque to prevent that.
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Pre RP Mullen D10 8/7, Zum 3/4, Carter S-10 3/4, previous Cougar SD-10 3/4 & GFI S-10 3/4, Fender Steel King, 2 Peavey Session 500's, Peavey Nashville 400, Boss DD-3, Profex-II, Hilton Digital Sustain, '88 Les Paul Custom,Epiphone MBIBG J-45, Fender Strat & Tele's, Takamine acoustics, Marshall amps, Boss effects, Ibanez Tube Screamer, and it all started with an old cranky worn out Kay acoustic you could slide a Mack truck between the strings and fretboard on!! |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 10:42 am
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If you've got a Fender tube amp, you might hold off on buying anything else for a while.
And if you're getting a PSG because you like the tone you normally hear out there in the big world from various players, you're going to want a heavier bar that gets a fatter tone. It doesn't have to be expensive (the Forum store here has one). The most-used size seems to be 7/8" so that's a good place to start. |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 12:12 pm
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| William Carter wrote: |
Your list is pretty complete with the exception of cables. You may assume that you already have some of those, but the standard for PSG seems to be “George L’s†cables. The wrong cables can have you fighting for the right tone and never understanding why you can’t get it if you never think to check the cables. I get mine from Bill Ferguson (Forum Member). You should be able to contact him on here. He has good prices and service.
You mentioned effects, but I don’t see where anybody specifically mentioned delay. The most common PSG effects are reverb (usually the spring reverb in a Peavey amp) and delay. The most popular delay pedal from what I have seen is Boss DD3, but I have the DD7 and it is almost identical.
As far as the stool, how much do you want to spend? I played for years with a keyboard stool from Guitar Center for around $40. I see people perfectly happy with drum thrones. If you are ready to spend the money, get a pack-a-seat built. The most popular one seems to be Steeler’s Choice. I also have one from Gruene Road Cases. Both are exceptional quality. There are a few differences in type of handles and round vs square legs. Call or email them. They are very helpful and willing to talk to you about what you need and make taller or shorter as needed.
The Peterson tuners are also a standard for PSG, and they have downloadable presets for the most popular tunings. The Stroboclip you have should work fine. Lots of PSG players use them. I have the stomp box version.
For the slide, the most popular is the 7/8†diameter, and they come in 10 and 12 string versions. The most popular one seems to be BJS. Steel Guitars of Canada has these in stock usually. Al Briscoe is very helpful and patient. He will talk you through picking out whatever accessories you need. The Canadian exchange rate can sometimes help you save a few dollars as well. BJS bars are not cheap, but he also has Dunlop if you aren’t ready to spend a lot. The prices listed on his website are in Canadian dollars, so if you think something seems high, just call him. It probably comes out to about the same as U.S. dealers after the rate conversion.
It is also very important to get the right volume pedal. Doug Earnest makes a very nice one at a reasonable price. It’s a flat $100, and I doubt you could get a better one, especially for the money. It’s very reliable and sounds right for PSG. Search online for Stage One steel guitars to find his website.
Lastly, the amp is what gave me the most frustration trying to build a proper setup. People on this forum will tell you that any amp will do, and that it’s all up to you. But if you are just starting off, and don’t want to spend thousands of dollars buying different amps to find “that†sound that you hear on recordings, just do yourself a favor and find a used Nashville 400. If you don’t like it, you will be able to get your money back. It’s also not as heavy as some of the others like Session 400 Limited or Session 500. If you have the money for a newer model like Nashville 112 or Session 115, go for it. You won’t be disappointed. They are much lighter. If you are new and don’t know what you want yet, I wouldn’t go out and spend the money on a Quilter or something high end until you are able to plug it in and try it out. Gary Sill is also another good person to talk to about PSG accessories. He is a forum member and has a website for Sill Music Supply. He will spend lots of time on the phone and be patient with you if you need help picking out accessories. |
Why on the George L cables? I have monster cables I've been using. I like them because if they have issues, you can go to any GC and they'll replace em immediately for free.
Is there some kinda TRS thing going on? do I need balanced cables? I have some Mogamis I think somewhere... hmm.
I have noticed though that there are a lot of those George L cables on PSGs though.
---
on effects, the ventris polymoon is the delay/echo . Although I was thinking about checking out the catalinbread echo-rec.... I LOVE echo-recs...not sure. I love their $2-5k price tags though! haha
Last edited by Ryan Lunenfeld on 18 Jan 2021 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 12:25 pm
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| Patrick Huey wrote: |
I would highly recommend an actual pedal steel guitar pack-a-seat as they are
1)built to proper height for playing steel.
2)comfortable to sit on for long periods
3)the legs fold up neatly and there is a carrying handle for easy transport
4)made w/ dedicated storage compartments for all your extra loose stuff like volume pedal, cables, strings,etc.
I have a Steeler’s Choice with back rest. They make them with extra side box Which is great to keep extra strings in and string winder so if you break a string while playing you can reach in the side box and access them without having to get up and actually open your seat. Also make them with added built in power strip if you want.
Jimmy Hudson makes a great quality affordable pack a seat as well.
Effects generally a Boss DD-3 delay and reverb are all you need although the Peavey Pro-Fex II is a super all around rack mount multi effects processor that has a ton of steel specific settings. These come up regularly for sale used on the Forum here.
You can find good used Peavey Nashville 400’s, Vegas 400’s, Session 500’s etc for sale here as well. All specifically designed for pedal steel.
You will not be able to really use a Schubb you want a full sized tone bar. Dunlop is a good, affordable starting point but I would recommend after determining the most comfortable size and weight for your hand I would break down in order a good BJS bar. Expensive kinda but worth it.
Also a cordless battery powered string winder is a must have. A good Ernie Ball Power Peg is $25-$35 or so. I would not recommend the attachment that goes on a cordless drill as the high rpm of a cordless drill can possibly damage the gears on tuning keys. The Ernie Balls are made to run at low enough RPM and torque to prevent that. |
Thank you! I've thought about a power string winder for sure. Do strings break often on PSG? So Pak a seat over a drum stool? hm. I still have a christmass present awaiting...so..hmmm. haha  |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 12:27 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
If you've got a Fender tube amp, you might hold off on buying anything else for a while.
And if you're getting a PSG because you like the tone you normally hear out there in the big world from various players, you're going to want a heavier bar that gets a fatter tone. It doesn't have to be expensive (the Forum store here has one). The most-used size seems to be 7/8" so that's a good place to start. |
Ok, next up then! I've got a 3/4" Byrd, but I guess something a little wider? How are they with string spacing? ( I guess I got a little too used to using with resonator and the lap picking sometimes with the slide...) |
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Asa Brosius
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 12:28 pm
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My votes, in consideration of your questions, and with a view towards thrift, simplicity and reliability-
-Used goodrich passive vp
-Your blues jr is great for steel, but won't stay clean or be loud enough if you're playing at drummer volumes. I'd pick up a used LTD ~300 for a big loud clean traditional steel amp.
-effects are simply what you like, or fun to experiment with- but they often behave differently with high wound psg pickups. You have very tweakable verb and delay already-I'd add a low gain overdrive such as an earth drive-the only pedal I have two of.
-your lap steel picks should be fine
-I'd say go adjustable drum throne for now. See how you fit under your d10, figure out your optimum height and measure it- it takes time to notice where you're holding tension- you may want a lift kit on your guitar- we're the same height and I do. Steel seats are handy if you're moving your gear around often, and a built in outlet can be useful, but I'll take a hard wooden chair all day at the right height vs. a great steel seat at the wrong.
-i'd pop for a strobe tuner, either a sonic research turbo or the newer peterson stompbox. Both are small, quick and accurate, around $100, and allow you to set custom tunings.
- I'd get a new bjs bullet bar and forget about it
-any traditional hex tuner that fits will work. Buy two.
-and as has been mentioned, some string packs with a few extra high B and G#'s for the E9 neck, and any plastic winder.
So much of this is to taste, and changes with experience and new demands, such as live shows or tours (RIP). Congrats on your new guitar- excellent place to start. |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 12:41 pm
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| Which is better for an apartment with practicing? the 112 peavey or 400? They seem pretty reasonably priced both of them! |
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William Carter
From:
Cedar Rapids, Iowa, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 12:51 pm
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| Ryan Lunenfeld wrote: |
Why on the George L cables? I have monster cables I've been using. I like them because if they have issues, you can go to any GC and they'll replace em immediately for free.
Is there some kinda TRS thing going on? do I need balanced cables? I have some Mogamis I think somewhere... hmm.
I have noticed though that there are a lot of those George L cables on PSGs though.
---
on effects, the ventris polymoon is the delay/echo . Although I was thinking about checking out the catalinbread echo-rec.... I LOVE echo-recs...not sure. I love their $2-5k price tags though! haha |
I am certainly not a cable expert, but I just remember the first PSG I bought had a manual with it that was very specific about using the right kind of cables, and they are not common guitar cables. I did try some common guitar cables just to see what happened, and I did not like the tone. I do know that PSG pickups are passive and run at a higher impedance than regular guitar's maybe that's it. I think the concern might be that since there's passive pickups, and then most people are using passive volume pedals, that the signal might degrade before getting to whatever pre-amp circuits are in your amp if you don't do everything you can to save the signal.
Ok, so Guitar Center will replace monster cables. You can fix the George L cable yourself if you have to. They are built to last and be easily fixed. There's reasons everybody is using them, and I'm probably not aware of all of those reasons.
As far as effects, any delay/echo or other effects you want to use is up to you. You didn't specify what kind of music you want to play, so I just gave you a list of the most common stuff that you will hear with traditional PSG country music. I spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out how to get that sound, and didn't get a lot of help because literally everything is fair game on a PSG.
If you are looking to play a different style or invent your own, you can try anything. Monster cables may produce the tone you are looking for along with whatever effects you may already have. If not, try to find a player you like and see what their rig has. Just don't ignore the little things like cables, because even though they might not matter on a regular guitar, they do matter on a PSG.
I also see a lot of people using Boss Katana amps nowadays. It would probably have way more options to tailor your sound than the old Nashville 400 so long as you are not trying to get the traditional country sounds that I chased after for so long.
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ZumSteel D10, Mullen G2 SD12 Universal, Rittenberry SD10 |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 12:56 pm
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| Ryan Lunenfeld wrote: |
| Which is better for an apartment with practicing? the 112 peavey or 400? They seem pretty reasonably priced both of them! |
I have both... and haven't gigged the Nashville 400 since I got the 112 due to it sounding similar (enough) and being WAY lighter. It's my "poser filter." Any band that's too loud for the 112 are weak amateurs. And you're going to mic an amp when you finally get good enough to play the stadium. Or even a decent club. The 112 has a headphone jack if you're apartment-practicing at night.
Note: neither of these Peaveys are tube amps, which is why they're not super expensive. You may or not be a solid state guy, but you won't know until you try one. But I will say that they can work in a PSG situation where they might not for a guitar since they won't distort, or even get 'hair.' They are pure, clean power.
Also, it's critical that you get the two midrange controls set correctly, or either of those amps will sound harsh and you'll want to sell them immediately. We'll talk more about that when you get one, but basically, most people find they have the Peavey 'honk,' an exaggerated midrange at around the 700-800Khz frequency that needs to be tamped down. There's a parametric setup with the midrange - two knobs that are inter-dependent on each other to dial in one midrange setting. You're probably going to want to select 800kHz as the frequency to be adjusted (using the knob labled 'Shift'). And then you actually do the adjustment of boosting or cutting decibels with the other knob labled 'Mid.' Most people suck out a bunch of decibals at 800; turning the Mid knob anywhere to the left of 12 O'clock is cutting decibels... and it's doing that cut at whatever frequency the other knob is pointing at. Let your taste be the guide, but a strong cut at around 700-800 is a good starting point for a lot of folks, and then tweak from there. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 1:45 pm
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Volume Pedal - I'd get an reasonably priced passive volume pedal with a 500K volume pot for now. Goodrich, Sho Bud, Stage One, or whatever you can find reasonable and is in good shape with a good pot. I don't like the Morleys at all. YMMV.
Amp - your Blues Jr. is fine for practicing. If you get to the point where you have to get over a band for rehearsal or gigs, then a loud clean amp is good if you wanna have a traditional country pedal steel sound. I like the 70s Session/LTD 400 or the Nashville 112, which you should be able to get for $300-400 used in good working order. 80s Nashville 400 is also a good reasonably priced workhorse. Twin Reverb, Pro Reverb, and so on great if you like tubes. In time, you should be able to figure out what you really want.
Effects - totally up to you. Blues Jr. has acceptable but IMO not great reverb - but to start, you just need to hear yourself clearly. I would not start by covering up your sound.
A lot of players use delay, and I have lots of them for guitar. But I find for steel this little Rogue delay - https://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/rogue-analog-delay-guitar-effects-pedal - works well for cheap. Nominal price $50, but they periodically put them on sale for $25-30. I'd wait till you can get something like this reasonable. Not good if you need either real short (<40) or long (more than 350ms) delays, but IMO quite natural sounding for pedal steel in that middle range.
Seat - I still use an adjustable drum throne, but I'm just shy of 6'4" (shrinking some) and it took me a while to figure out what height I needed. By the time I figured it out, I was pretty comfortable with the throne approach. My favorite is a Roadster 1000N with the swivel height adjustment (this one - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/D1000N--pearl-roadster-series-drum-throne-standard-height - NOT the version with either shock absorbption or pneumatic adjustment, NOR the short version D1000SN). The shock absorber version moves up and down while playing - very annoying. I found my Roadster used at GC in Nashville last year for $70. Solid as a rock.
I use a 2-3" lift kit, depending on guitar. Like the seat height, this may require a bit of experimentation, depending on how long your legs are and what you're comforable with. And your seat height depends on your guitar height, and vice-versa.
I didn't use a back rest for years. But I recently got a Gibraltar Universal Back Rest - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GUBR--gibraltar-universal-backrest-with-clamp - and it fits fine on the Roadster and an old heavy duty Dixon throne that I got when I started - both swivel height adjustment. Helps takes the load off the back. The back rest was about $60 on sale. I use the Roadster for gigs, set up the Dixon for practice at home, and I have this cheap DW throne that I keep at rehearsal spaces. All of this less than a good steel seat. For now, you need one seat.
Tuner - your tuners are fine for now. The downside of the Stroboclip HD is that it doesn't have the E9 or C6 pedal steel sweeteners. But just use equal temperamnent and use a chart (look around the forum) to adjust cents up or down if you can't hear the beats. In time, I think it's important to be able to tune by ear - once you set the bar to the strings, you're playing by ear. That said, I really like the Peterson Strobo Stomp HD for quick checks between songs, regular and slide guitar, bass, whatever. A really great tuner.
Bar - I totally endorse the BJS chromed bullet bar. They are totally worth it. But they aren't cheap and you probably want to make sure you know what size you want before you get one. My hands are large and fingers long, so I prefer a 15/16" diameter x 3-9/16" length 12-string bar regardless of whether I'm playing 10 or 12 strings. I got a 7/8"D x 3-3/8" BJS bar pretty early on, only to realize later that I needed a bigger bar. I think most players would find the Jerry Byrd bar way too small for PSG. People do use the NP1, but most pedal steel players use a larger bullet bar.
Picks - I really like the Fred Kelly regular thumb picks in Delrin. They are sorta like the Herco Blues, but they stay on my thumb much better. But this is total user preference. They're (mostly) cheap. Finger picks - whatever floats your boat. I sometimes use Dunlops, sometimes Pro Piks, sometimes the JF picks (but good luck finding them).
Cables - whatever. George L's are good, but not necessary IMO. I avoid Monster, but only because they're expensive - but if you like 'em, they're fine. I don't think cables matter much just starting out as long as they are decent quality and don't break. Tone controls can make up for small differences in cable capacitance, IMO.
Tuning wrench - Whatever wrench fits your steel. Get at least a couple.
Short story - you have most of the stuff you need right now to start playing pedal steel. You do not need to go out and buy a bunch of stuff. Volume pedal, some type of adjustable seat to figure out what height you need, maybe a lift kit if you need to raise the guitar, a wrench or two, and a bigger bullet bar to get you an idea what size you need. |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 2:47 pm
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Thank you all for the detailed answers! highly appreciated!
Cable wise I think with the buffered thing on the polytune 3 should cut down a bit on signal loss, no?
The passive volume + cabling does make sense for sure. |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 3:16 pm
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https://www.steelguitarshopper.com/JP-B3/
Something like this for a slide?
Or should I go for the longer ? or other one?
Any suggestions on strings to get from this forum((trying to support here as much as I can ) |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 4:23 pm
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That bar is only about 3-1/4" long, and it doesn't state the diameter. The "standard" psg bar is 3-3/8" long and 7/8" diameter. I use a 3-9/16" x 15/16" chromed bar because I use stainless strings, and stainless bar on stainless strings produces a lot of friction. Interestingly, my middle finger is 3-9/16" long and my hand from edge of wrist to end of middle finger is 8". From the base of pinky to edge of thumb extended is 6-1/2". So my hand is relatively big and fingers are relatively long, but not monster-big. But the smaller bars are harder for me to control - there's just not enough to grab onto without having a cutaway, such as with the NP-1.
I really like Cobra Coils, but I am fine with GHS Super Steels, or even Boomers if I want to use a stainless bar. They're good strings and reasonably priced, IMO. I'm even OK with SIT strings, although I don't like them as much as the others for pedal steel. I used SIT guitar strings for a long time when I wanted lower tension - I measured the wound string cores, and they were smaller diameter for the same overall gauge, which accounts for the lower tension feel. But that doesn't suit me for pedal steel as well.
So much of this is subject to personal anatomy and, ultimately, preference and taste. That's one reason I wouldn't go crazy buying a bunch of expensive versions of whatever to start. I would get what you absolutely need to get going and then learn from experience what you ultimately prefer. |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 4:40 pm
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Would this be better then?
https://www.steelguitarshopper.com/JP-B5/
...
Again thanks to everyone who has contributed, I believe I'm on the right direction. I think some of the Lap Steel accessory knowledge helped me to ask the right questions, ha.
It looks like I am going to be going Mission VM-Pro for my pedal. I am hoping that's a good choice. Getting it from another SGF member who has a store and seems like a great guy to support.
An active volume pedal should reduce any signal drop from the cables, no? |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 10:54 pm
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| Ryan Lunenfeld wrote: |
It looks like I am going to be going Mission VM-Pro for my pedal. I am hoping that's a good choice....
An active volume pedal should reduce any signal drop from the cables, no? |
Ryan,
Here's my two cents:
1) Several people have wisely suggested a simple passive volume pedal for learning and gigging.
Here's why--for pedal steel, it's not used as a "volume/ loudness" pedal; it's really used as an "expression & sustain" pedal.
The best resistance in the potentiometer for pedal steel "expression pedals" seems to be around 500K ohms with an audio-taper, which is what was used in all those ShoBud, Emmons, etc. pedals to get those lovely swells and sustain. I'm no expert, but a quick look at the resistance specs of a Mission VM-Pro seem nowhere near that.
2) Unless you've just won the lottery, I'd suggest keeping your costs down. In my experience, a lot more musicians give up on PSG than continue its very steep and intense learning curve. For learning, buy used gear if you can.
Use your Blues Jr as a practice amp. You won't need an NV112 until you're gigging, and that is often 6 months or more away. 
3) You don't need a Pack-a-Seat for learning--they are for stage gigs. Many players do not use them; why create another big heavy thing to cart around? (Have you picked up that D-10 yet?)
I do agree with the folks who've suggested an adjustable drummer's stool, at least for learning. A used one is fine. It's better if you can get one with a back support--your back will thank you!
(FWIW, I personally use a lightweight, adjustable-height ATS brand bow-hunter's seat. Unfortunately ATS is not manufacturing them anymore.)
4) Any decent guitar cable will do while you're learning. If you start gigging, I'd recommend the George L cables.
For years I made my own cables with Belden cables and Switchcraft plugs--still considered excellent quality. Then one day, I tried the George L cables--and shazam! Suddenly all this great tone somehow came out of my amp!
I don't understand the electronics behind this, but many many PSG players seem to have made the same discovery.
- Dave |
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Andrew Goulet
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Posted 19 Jan 2021 7:53 am
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You've gotten plenty of good advice. The only thing I'll add is that after you get your footing on the basics and start learning more, you might want to consider a Tab Rack from Tom Bradshaw. This is an aluminium music stand that clips onto the legs of your steel. Basically gives you what every piano player has: a sturdy, wide place to put sheet music that doesn't take up any extra room and is nice and close so you don't have to strain your eyes
_________________
Marlen S12 and a ZT Club |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2021 6:44 pm
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| Dave Magram wrote: |
| Ryan Lunenfeld wrote: |
It looks like I am going to be going Mission VM-Pro for my pedal. I am hoping that's a good choice....
An active volume pedal should reduce any signal drop from the cables, no? |
Ryan,
Here's my two cents:
1) Several people have wisely suggested a simple passive volume pedal for learning and gigging.
Here's why--for pedal steel, it's not used as a "volume/ loudness" pedal; it's really used as an "expression & sustain" pedal.
The best resistance in the potentiometer for pedal steel "expression pedals" seems to be around 500K ohms with an audio-taper, which is what was used in all those ShoBud, Emmons, etc. pedals to get those lovely swells and sustain. I'm no expert, but a quick look at the resistance specs of a Mission VM-Pro seem nowhere near that.
2) Unless you've just won the lottery, I'd suggest keeping your costs down. In my experience, a lot more musicians give up on PSG than continue its very steep and intense learning curve. For learning, buy used gear if you can.
Use your Blues Jr as a practice amp. You won't need an NV112 until you're gigging, and that is often 6 months or more away.
3) You don't need a Pack-a-Seat for learning--they are for stage gigs. Many players do not use them; why create another big heavy thing to cart around? (Have you picked up that D-10 yet?)
I do agree with the folks who've suggested an adjustable drummer's stool, at least for learning. A used one is fine. It's better if you can get one with a back support--your back will thank you!
(FWIW, I personally use a lightweight, adjustable-height ATS brand bow-hunter's seat. Unfortunately ATS is not manufacturing them anymore.)
4) Any decent guitar cable will do while you're learning. If you start gigging, I'd recommend the George L cables.
For years I made my own cables with Belden cables and Switchcraft plugs--still considered excellent quality. Then one day, I tried the George L cables--and shazam! Suddenly all this great tone somehow came out of my amp!
I don't understand the electronics behind this, but many many PSG players seem to have made the same discovery.
- Dave |
1) I'm a bit confused on? how is it more expression/sustain? The person I'm getting it from is a SGF guy who has lots of experience and suggested it. Owns a shop and all that does repairs on PSGs a lot( i love these abbreviations! haha). But I'm curious to learn more about that. I like the active aspect of it. I heard the height and the left jacks can be a problem. Would this be an issue with 8 foot pedals?
2) That makes sense! totally keeping the the Fender Blues JR. I'm still pondering selling my blackheart amp as I don't think I really need two tubes of about the same wattage. And Nashville 400s seem to sell for around the same price as I can get for that amp. Not looking to quit, if I wanted to quit, I woulda quit when I got super frustrated with lap steel until breaking the barrier. The learning curve and all is what is exciting! I know I'll never be big, and I don't care to. I just enjoy the catharsis of playing. And the addition of more elements of legs seems...like more catharsis!
3) I think I'm going to go that route unless I find a great deal on a used one. Even though that seems kinda weird with someone's butt on a seat for so long! haha. I'm not sure about a cheap piano seat or a drum stool. And for drum stool should it be a round, not biker seat, no? The problem with the stool situation is...when I started looking I got into the Pork Pie's look! haha... and at that price, it's bridging on pak a seat prices. I do need something for playing out relatively quickly. I have bookings...even though I'm not the best player, I'm a pretty good networker. Unfortunately I find the better players not great networkers... :/
4) Sounds good! I think when that comes in my path i'll bridge it. Do other cables pick up electrical frequency? or what? I'm so confused on why the George L's are so highly recommended. I have...half a degree in electrical engineering...haha...so this stuff makes me curious.
And thank you very much for your response it's well appreciated!
Sorry if I didn't respond to everyone's post. Trying to though as I'm grateful for input. Like I said, just want to start on the right foot. And yes I'll get frustrated, and yes i'll want to bang my head against the wall. But unlike Sisyphus, I think one day I can push that rock over the hill. And ...hell, why not enjoy the rock pushing! |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2021 6:47 pm
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| Andrew Goulet wrote: |
| You've gotten plenty of good advice. The only thing I'll add is that after you get your footing on the basics and start learning more, you might want to consider a Tab Rack from Tom Bradshaw. This is an aluminium music stand that clips onto the legs of your steel. Basically gives you what every piano player has: a sturdy, wide place to put sheet music that doesn't take up any extra room and is nice and close so you don't have to strain your eyes |
Thank you! I think this is a great idea. I have Bill Keith's Pedal Steel Guitar Book coming in tomorrow, and I think a place to put it so I can read it while playing would be fantastic. Where to put the CD, I don't know without a CD player anymore! hahah
That might be next monnth or the next month after when I can afford it after a new tuner, pedal and seat.
Luckily one of those is still a xmass present from the lady! |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2021 7:57 pm
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If you are starting on a fairly standard E9th tuning. I would suggest a Mel Bay E9th Chord Chart, It will allow you to transpose any music chords from other instruments to the E9th neck of a steel guitar.
It is available here on the Forum Store or on internet sites.
Good Luck in the adventure, Happy Steelin. |
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Ryan Lunenfeld
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2021 8:08 pm
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
If you are starting on a fairly standard E9th tuning. I would suggest a Mel Bay E9th Chord Chart, It will allow you to transpose any music chords from other instruments to the E9th neck of a steel guitar.
It is available here on the Forum Store or on internet sites.
Good Luck in the adventure, Happy Steelin. |
Thank you, and ordered! I was writing my own for lap steel, with pedal being a bit more complex, seems great!  |
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