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Topic: String 9 Uni question |
Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 4 Feb 2021 12:55 pm |
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I've fairly recently rejigged the bottom end of my E9 tuning so that string 9 is B and string 10 is G#.
B pulls to D on RKL. I love this whole set up for many reasons. I use the D raise a lot.
Wondering if anybody with this configuration has 'feel stops' within that B-D raise?
The full raise is a min3. The A pedal raises it a whole tone along with string 5. But there are many situations where raising string 9 alone is preferable.
For example raising a semitone to C allows for a great dom7#9 with string 5 untouched. Open, that's G#7(#9).
Similarly, raising string 9 a whole tone to C#, while leaving string 5 alone is the same as the standard D string semitone lower, also very useful at times.
The travel on that pull is fairly long, so partial levering is pretty manageable and I'm getting used to it. If the bellcrank/finger leverage was further optimized for shortest travel possible it'd be much more ergonomic for the full B-D raise but I imagine that partial levering would be trickier, hence the feel stop question. What's your set up if you have this change on E9 or Uni? |
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Benjamin Davidson
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Posted 4 Feb 2021 2:31 pm
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I have the 9th string B to D change, its on LKL2 for me and its paired with with 10th string G# to B and 2nd string D# to D. My Justice is a 10 string E9/B6 Universal. I change both lower strings with my set up to accomplish faster single note runs with the 9th string D available.
On my guitar the LKL2 lever is timed very smooth so I don't have any appreciable stop to feel, and my travel is relatively short due to using heavier string gauges (.044w and .048w on those strings). When I arranged by undercarriage the only constraint I had was to be able to pull that B to D, and be able to use my zero pedal (strings 5 and 10 B to A lower, or half-Franklin) and get the C# normally available on the E9th. Getting a half stop with it wasn't in my thought process, and I prefer the combination of pedals/levers over half-stops that I've tried to feel in the past.
My pedal 5 fulfills the equivalent C6 pedal 8 string 9-change B to C, in a convenient spot for me between my "C" pedal and the typical C6th pedal 5 changes over on pedal 6. So, I have all four notes available; B natural, C with my pedal 5 (C6th-8th), C# with LKL2 and pedal 0 (1/2 Franklin), and D with LKL2 alone, and the setup works well for me.
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Justice Pro-Lite (9p9k) 10 String D13th Universal Tuning |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 4 Feb 2021 4:55 pm
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I have the B-D raise on RKL, a normal A pedal and a half-step raise to B# (the useful bit of P on my centre vertical. So no half-step required.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 4 Feb 2021 5:16 pm
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That's a very cool set up you have Benjamin with the splits on the zero pedal and the P8 half boo-wa you described on your 5th pedal.
I'd be interested to see a copedant chart if you're inclined to share. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 4 Feb 2021 5:29 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| I have the B-D raise on RKL, a normal A pedal and a half-step raise to B# (the useful bit of P on my centre vertical. So no half-step required. |
Interesting.
Are you able to get C# on string 9 without raising string 5 simultaneously? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 5 Feb 2021 3:16 am
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No, but I can see why you might want to, in which case a half-stop would be the answer.
I have the complication that my same lever raises 2 from C# to D# via a half-stop at D. I suppose it might be possible to time it all so that the same half-stop does both, but life's too short - mine is, anyway! 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 5 Feb 2021 6:09 am
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I wouldn't have an E9th any other way. It's very rare that one would play the bottom B and the 9th string D.
Most often it goes from D on upwards, so very little is lost by putting a B on the 9th to be raised with a lever (like the one that drops the 2nd string to D, to keep the same thinking) and much more fun gained by having the bottom G# to throw more growls at the crowd and unruly cocky guitar players! Ha!
It's like dropping the first C6th pedal for some more versatile and less redundant change. Yes, you loose the first bar of "The Shadow Of Your Smile" (you'll do it in some other position), but you gain so much more with adding let's say a C-to-C# on that pedal next to the "5th"-pedal.
I think that IF the mechanical possibilities would have been as readily available as they were from the mid 60's on. The D would have been a pull from the beginning. I just carried over as a 9th string due to limited mechanicals and habit.
... J-D
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 5 Feb 2021 9:21 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
No, but I can see why you might want to, in which case a half-stop would be the answer.
I have the complication that my same lever raises 2 from C# to D# via a half-stop at D. I suppose it might be possible to time it all so that the same half-stop does both, but life's too short - mine is, anyway! |
I heat you. Hmm, that half stop you have on string 2 might already be close to a C# on string 9 though.
I can live without that change on string 9 but it makes for a nice min7 option with the open B on string 5.
I've been practicing the standard 'On Green Dolphin Street'. There's a constant pedal tone under the chord changes that is somewhat easier to navigate if I can raise 9 a whole step without altering string 5.
Makes for more voicing possibilities going from major to minor. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 5 Feb 2021 9:41 am
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I hear what you're saying JD.
Lots to think about in your post.
Personally, although I have the D on a lever, I do think that note is a crucial component of the E9 sound, so I'm not certain the tuning would have evolved without it as you describe, even if mechanical possibles allowed for it.
One handy thing about the G# & B approach for 9 & 10, in my view, is the preservation of that min3 interval between strings. That low Bmin option on standard E9 is still somewhat of an option if need be. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 5 Feb 2021 9:56 am
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| Andrew Frost wrote: |
I hear what you're saying JD.
Lots to think about in your post.
Personally, although I have the D on a lever, I do think that note is a crucial component of the E9 sound, so I'm not certain the tuning would have evolved without it as you describe, even if mechanical possibles allowed for it.
One handy thing about the G# & B approach for 9 & 10, in my view, is the preservation of that min3 interval between strings. That low Bmin option on standard E9 is still somewhat of an option if need be. |
Well, it clears up your "A6th" side of the tuning, which with the B-to-Bb-lever and the E-to-Eb-lever has C6th's pedals "5" & "6".
Once the "D" is out of the way that side of the tuning it's free or "hurdles".
The D-pull becomes the "6"-pedal on the B6th side with only the E-to-Eb lever down...
Pedals A&B down plus the D-pull gives you somewhat of a "7"-pedal and some IV-over-V and V-over IV inversions otherwise only found on C6th.
You can do a LOT of "damage" with that setup! 
... J-D.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Benjamin Davidson
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Posted 5 Feb 2021 1:24 pm
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| Andrew Frost wrote: |
That's a very cool set up you have Benjamin with the splits on the zero pedal and the P8 half boo-wa you described on your 5th pedal.
I'd be interested to see a copedant chart if you're inclined to share. |
Here you go Andrew,
Let me know if you have any questions.
_________________
Justice Pro-Lite (9p9k) 10 String D13th Universal Tuning |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 6 Feb 2021 6:43 pm
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| Benjamin Davidson wrote: |
| Andrew Frost wrote: |
That's a very cool set up you have Benjamin with the splits on the zero pedal and the P8 half boo-wa you described on your 5th pedal.
I'd be interested to see a copedant chart if you're inclined to share. |
Here you go Andrew,
Let me know if you have any questions. |
Right on. Thanks Benjamin. |
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