Speaker mounting ? Front mount vs. back mount

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

I experiment quite a bit with different speakers. I like to front mount them for ease of exchange. I have heard claims that rear mount sounds better. I don't believe my ears can tell the difference. Comments?

ajm · From: Los Angeles

Right off I'll say that I can't provide an answer or opinion.

But some claim that it does.
More than a few years ago (2012 maybe?), either Buzz Feiten or Bogner made a 2x12 that had one of each in it.
I believe that it was made of solid pine and had some other enhancements as well.
There was a review in Guitar Player magazine at the time.

It appears from a quick internet search that Feiten has licensed his cabinet design to Fuchs amps.

The Fuchs site which talks about the front/rear combination:

https://fuchsaudiotechnology.com/product/speaker-cabinets/the-buzz-feiten-vintage-cabinet/

An ad from Zzounds which shows a picture of the cabinet without the grille:

https://www.zzounds.com/item--FCHFEITEN212

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

This smacks of a fad. Whatever difference it might make will be less than absolutely everything else in the signal chain. (It's on a par with fancy loudspeaker cables that claim all sorts of superior properties when all that's needed is low resistance.)

That amp looks like the work of someone who couldn't make their mind up, or put one unit in then decided it would be easier to do it the other way. I don't see it as the selling point that it's clearly intended to be.
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Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

I can only think that the thickness of the baffle may add some projection when rear mounted. All of the front mounted cabs I have are bass bins whose frequencies are uni-directional. All my rear mounts are guitar amplifiers, and the frequencies tend to disperse following the shape of the cone. (Of course, the very high frequencies will "beam" from the center cap.)

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

It seems to me with there being rubber gasket shock absorbers on both sides of the speaker, it wouldn't make any difference which way the speaker is mounted. The rubber is going to cancel any speaker vibrations that reach the baffle. So that leaves only the thickness and/or the constructions material used for the baffle as a variant. I can't convince myself that a speaker being 1/2 or 3/4 inches further back into the cabinet because of the baffle thickness would make enough difference that our ears can hear. Maybe if measured with some sort of sensitive instrument, it might show a slight difference. There are much more important things in the cabinet to considet. The material used in the cabinet construction, the size of the cabinet, the outer covering of the cabinet, and open or closed back, all make a difference. Personally, I dont like small cabinets.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

A sound board covered with black formica might help?
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I complement Bill and George for having more patience with this than I could muster Smile

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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

As long as they use Brass wood screws it doesn't matter. Rolling Eyes

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Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

A few things to consider.

Rear mounting reduces the internal area of the cabinet. So if trying both methods on the same cabinet, there is probably a difference. That would likely be more noticeable with a closed back cab v. open back.

All speakers I've ever owned came with the mounting gasket on the front of the frame for rear mounting. Yes, I know you can buy gaskets for the rear of the frame, but the front mount fit might also depend on the construction of the speaker frame and your sawing skills if you're a DIY'er.

I read in one of my books on speaker building that rear mounting the speaker has some effect on the midrange due to the lip of the cutout and that rear mounting also provides a more mellow tone.

I don't have any data to prove it nor how you would measure it, but I'm sure there are differences. Whether or not they are appreciable to any degree or amount to a hill of beans may be questionable.

Peavey steel amps and many of their other amps are rear mounted. I dunno know if that design has any sonic engineering or not.

I front mounted the BW speaker in my NV400 at one time. I can't say I noticed any difference but I wasn't looking for it. I have also swapped mounting methods in the cabinets I build micelf. I don't remember installing another gasket on these though.

There are so many other things going on.

One might compare differences by distances from the listener or user where it might be more noticeable.

Another consideration, not sonically related however, is cone protection in a front mounted system.

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

All the Peavey amps I've owned have been rear mounted. My Evans SE-200 is front mounted with T-nuts in the rear and Allen head screws in the front. I got the amp used, so I don't know if it's original or not. My Katana was rear mounted as has been all the Fenders I've owned. I have to mount my JBL D-130 into a speaker cabinet for a Marsh head being built for me. I think I will stick with the rear mounting.

George Biner · From: Los Angeles, CA

I think this is a first world problem and it's not going to matter beans.
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George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

George, I think you're probably right. I think I'm guilty of over thinking.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I had a speaker cabinet nearly the same physical size of a Peavey Nashville 112. It had a Travis Toy 12" Eminence speaker front mounted in it. I was doing some speaker comparison between a Telonics 12" and the Travis Toy. Using the Peavey Nashville 112 amp to drive the Travis Toy 12, to me it sounded the same in the front mounted cabinet and in the 112 cabinet rear mounted.

As a side comment about the Telonics VS the Travis Toy, the Telonics won by a slim margin in the Nashville 112. I now have a Quilter Travis Toy 12 amp and the Travis Toy speaker is perfect in the Quilter "Block Dock 12" speaker cabinet (front mounted). The speaker has cleaner highs and more lows that it did in the Nashville 112 cabinet.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Hi Jack,
Is it the cabinet design difference between the Nashville 112 cabinet vs Quilter cabinet or the difference between the Nashville 112 electronics vs Quilter electronics? If it's the electronics circuitry, I would think night and day difference?
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

No audio expert here, but I think the front/rear issue is more important in home audio stereo speakers and studio monitors where the purpose is faithful sound reproduction. With enlosed cabinets like these, speaker placement is more critical along with matching drivers to cabinets.

In our case, we are not doing reproduction rather sound production where we are not trying to re-create an already recorded sound.

I guess the exception, if there is one, would be pro audio FOH systems where we have a combination of sound from the stage.

Interesting food for thought.

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Jerry, good points. I have built several speaker cabinets. I did some research into building enclosed cabinets in the hope of getting closer to the same sound regardless of the venue acoustics. What I learned made me forget enclosed speakers. It was way beyond my ability to figure the cabinet dimensions based on speaker size and type, the cubic feet needed, the size and position of port holes, the amount and thickness of insulation, the positioning of the insulation, and type of insulation. I decided to forget it. I'm sticking with open back cabinets. My only experience with closed back cabinets was a pair of Stereo Steel cabinets. They sounded fine, but drove the other band members nuts. My brother played bass on the other side of the stage. He said I sounded like I was playing through a 1950's transistor radio. He was hearing the sound out of the side of the cabinet more than the front. The places I played never had room to use both speakers.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Same here. I experimented with closed backed cabinets and got complaints from band members that they couldn't hear me. Any prefered tone differences can be gained back by tweaking the amp.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Jerry's so right - we're not in the hifi business where these things might conceivably matter.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Don't get me wrong. I think it's worth exploration for anyone who wants to do the work.
When I first started building cabs, I experimented with a lot of variables. I studied books of cabinet design that deal with Thiele-Small data etc. as I was pretty much ignorant of the science involved.

The procedure is that first you choose a speaker and build a cabinet around it's data and parameters using these formulas. It became very tedious. I felt that by the time I designed a cabinet that met all the criteria for the speakers I use, that it would be way larger than I wanted to deal with.

Now though, through computer programs and such, it's probably a more easily acquired science application.

In my case, I decided it was just too tedious a project, so I studied some speaker and amp maker's cabinets, including Peavey's, and determined that amp builders pretty much built their cabinets to pretty much fit their amp chassis and speaker complements and make them manageable. Close enough.

I still think it's a worthwhile endeavor for anyone that wants to find the ultimate combination with closed back cabinets. With open backs, it may just be a wasted effort.

I have built and used several, both open and closed, front and rear loaded, the most recent in the kickback floor monitor style. These are enclosed style with ports. I even built a mechanism to vary the port area, but I have to say I just don't see much difference, but I enjoyed the experience and maybe even learned a thing or two.

That's plenty sometimes. I would never squash anyone's ideas or efforts. That's how we get new and/or improved products.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I tried a "tubed" port that I could move in and out of the cabinet and change the length of the tube to tune it. Didn't seem to have a worthwhile result.
I removed a speaker from a Standel 2-15 guitar cabinet and it was Packed tightly with some kind of dense white foam. It had two Eminence speakers in it. The amp and speaker cabinet sounded good, but it seemed like the dense foam would kill anything that the cabinet would have contributed to the sound?
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

Like Jerry and others, I experimented with different designs, (often guesses), but made no breakthroughs. I once built a closed back cab, ported on both sides through the baffle, with an internal "horn" to direct the sound from the rear of the speaker to the front, it actually looked pretty cool. It was the sorriest cab I ever heard, come to find out, if you mix the speakers "push", and "pull" together, they cancel each other!

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I've always wanted just to go all the way on speakers and cabs...like John Cipollina did.....the only way to be sure you've got the bases covered...my old Marshall 4x12 just didn't do it...and now I've shrunk it down to a 1x10, or a 1x12 if I'm really feeling energetic....cabs from Mojotone, all seem like well-built.

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