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Topic: Any tricks for making a D-10 (the C6th) sound Hawaiian |
Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2020 8:31 pm |
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I know I’m asking a lot, and y’all have a right to get snobby on me. I have Franklin and Excel D10’s. They sound different, but neither has that old-school Hawaiian sound. I have a lap steel I built with a Sentell NC-17 pickup on it that sounds great and comes much closer. I was wondering if any of you have been able to coax that sound out of a d-10 using an amp model, eq, pickup load or other signal processing? As a clue, I temporarily mounted my Sentell over the strings closer to the neck on the Franklin and that got me closer. The Franklin has a PF II pup in it, and I don’t want to change it or add pickups.
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Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 21 Dec 2020 11:58 am
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I don't have any suggestions for you but I always thought Paul did a great job of conjuring up island tones in this Chesney tune. I think this was played on E9th probably.
Not old school of course and probably not what you're looking for but....
https://youtu.be/z5Md2zeXiNg?t=99 |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 21 Dec 2020 2:38 pm
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You just need to add one of these to your rig:
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All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2020 4:21 pm
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THAT's IT!
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2020 4:43 pm
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Jerry: Thanks for that! Yeah, I totally get that
1). You have to play voicings and lines like a Hawaiian player.
2). Picking in the best place.(e.g. nearer the neck fattens up the sound). It is amazing what you can do with your fingers (I'm a very fingery bass player). There's all kinds of stuff you can do with your hands (chimes, different blocking etc.)
1) and 2) above are all about "me", and I'm not asking for help on that because I wouldn't ask you guys to take on that kind of impossible task.
What I guess I'm talking about is the raw "mechanical" tone of the steel. Like if a machine picked an open string on my D-10, then the same machine picked an open string on JB's guitar. How can I make that sound similar.
a). I suppose the first would be frequency response, which might be had by some wacky EQ. I'm sure that the pickup impedance and the pickup position have a lot to do with that because of the results of my experiment of placing my Sentell pickup nearer the neck of the Franklin.
b). The older gear (a 5W amp into an 8" speaker?) would also introduce some subtle distortion.
c). I understand that the higher-order harmonics would decay differently based on the difference in guitar bodies, strings etc., but I think if I can simulate a) and b) with some fidelity, I'm almost there.
I understand that if I wanted to sound like bagpipes, I should just play bagpipes, but you get what I'm asking.
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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gary pierce
From:
Rossville TN
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 21 Dec 2020 5:24 pm
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Gotcha Glenn. Yessir, I understand what you are looking for. I wish I had some insight for you.
I'd be interested as well if you come up with any help via electronics, etc.
I've always loved the sound of the old original lap steels. The recent post by Rick Aiello just blows me plumb away. It's one of the most beautiful sounds on the planet and I can see why you want to emulate that. Good Luck. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 22 Dec 2020 12:16 pm Try This
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Here is an eyedeer. Seriously
Take your volume pedal and all of any efx and set them some where.
Plug straight in to preferably a tube amp or solid state, maybe a drop of reverb and thats it. Sorry , nothing else. No V pedal no pumping.
Do what you can to dial in a sound you like and let your hands do all of the dynamic range adjustments into your recording situation.
Same goes if you are playing to tracks or with a band make your hands do all of the dynamic range (soft to loud).
This the way it was done in the not so old days.
While you are at it take all of those pedals and rods off too.
This is what the majority of the pedal guys are doing at the Dallas Non Pedal Room for example.
It forces you to play the real non pedal way which is ultimately what you are wanting to do.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
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Duane Becker
From:
Elk,Wa 99009 USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2020 2:49 pm
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Glenn, I may see things different, but remember Hawaiian players Barney Issaccs and Jules Ah See used pedals in the late 1950s, and I think Barney used a Fender 400 on a few of the Hawaii Calls lp in the early 1960's. However they used pedals not to get lics and bends, but to get chords.
Also listen to Buddy Merrill. On a few of his lps, he used an Emmons pp with pedals and captured that Hawaiian sound pretty good. |
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Garry Vanderlinde
From:
CA
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Posted 26 Dec 2020 7:47 pm
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I am no expert, but according to Bobby Ingano the right hand picks further down the neck more in the middle rather than closer to the pick-up. Also, right hand moves (follows) with the bar hand as bar moves up and down the neck.
Set treble where it hurts or sounds harsh and then back off until it sweetens up.
Check out Bobby Ingano's tips on the H.S.G.A. facebook website for the 2018 convention. He is quite the philosopher.
The Hawaiian motto to learning steel guitar:
open your eyes,
open your ears,
& shut your mouth,
...don't ask any questions. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2020 11:09 pm Hawaiian sound on D-10
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So I get the technique and style thing (where to pick, no pedals etc,), but like my earlier comment, that’s not my question. Imagine a “machine†picking an open string on a D-10 and the final output sounds “Hawaiianâ€.
I messed with my effects unit and matched the eq to make my D-10 match the lap steel with the Sentell pickup (sounding very Hawaiian) and it still didn’t cut it. I put the Sentell pickup temporarily on the D-10 closer to the neck, and it just nails it with no eq.
 [/img]
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Garry Vanderlinde
From:
CA
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Posted 27 Dec 2020 1:09 am
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Not gonna happen with any electronics.
Work on your vibrato!
Have you listened to any Dick McIntire?  |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2020 8:38 am
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| If all else fails, dribble some pineapple juice all over it, and sprinkle with pure cane sugar (C & H, of course). |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2020 8:47 am Best idea
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Try playing Hawaiian music  Tommy..... |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 27 Dec 2020 9:03 am
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| Good on you Glenn. Glad you found what you are looking for. If you post clips, love to hear how it sounds sometime. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2020 10:30 pm
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OK: So I'm out of tune and I sound like I just ate a turkey and washed it down with a bottle of Nyquil, but my playing isn't the purpose of this video...
I'm playing the C6 neck on the Franklin D-10 with no pedals (or volume pedal)or effects. I recorded the stock franklin "bridge" pickup and a Sentell NC-18 "neck" pickup at the same time straight into the board, then flipped between them during the mixdown. Both tracks have an identical reverb plug-in added in the mix.
The first one you hear is the Franklin bridge pickup.
https://youtu.be/cbp4vpza5m8
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2020 5:56 am You nailed it.
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| Glen: That sounds great. Especially the harmonics. You've got what you were trying to get. That's plenty Hawaiian. Thanks, Tommy..... |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 28 Dec 2020 6:13 am
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Glenn,
You got pretty close ! Make sure don’t do an A/B comparison with a Clinesmith or old classic steel though. It’s is a very seductive sound that can do real damage to your bank account 
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Bob |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Dec 2020 6:15 am
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I find that when I wear my Hula Skirt, I tend to sound more Hawaiian.  Sorry, I'll go back to my room with the rubber walls.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 29 Dec 2020 8:43 am Try it on the Excel
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I would like to hear the same experiment on the Excel,
which may - likely - just be more Hawaiian in Tone than a Nashville Franklin Sound.
Your on the right track now by eliminating all of the pedal steel temptations, and trying to get it out of your head about all of the electronic Band-Aids.
1 more eyedeer, play through an amplifier with it's reverb instead of direct with studio reverb.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
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T. C. Furlong
From:
Lake County, Illinois, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2020 10:11 am
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I recently got asked to add steel to a Hawaiian Christmas song for a band I record with - Susie Blue and the Lonesome Fellas. I've used a Franklin D-10 in the past and it works OK but not quite like this rig. Clinesmith 10 string lap steel -> Kemper Profiling Amp (Clean Deluxe profile) -> UA Apollo Twin X interface -> iMac running LUNA DAW which did nothing but record (no plug-ins). I like the tone. It's kind of hifi Hawaiian. Have a listen here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eaz0eribwtm4d6p/Hawaiian%20Christmas%20Song%20Susie%20Blue%20-%20mix%20w%20steel.mp3?dl=0
TC |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 31 Dec 2020 11:40 am
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I'm of the opinion that there are just too many moving parts in a pedal steel (changer fingers and roller nuts).
This excess of hardware, so necessary to the function of a pedal steel, takes away the richness of tone that comes so easily from a simple lap steel with two solid bars (one for the bridge and one for the nut) |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2020 2:01 pm
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Yeah TC, I saw the video! Well done.
I don’t consider myself a “golden eared†listener, but I can tell the difference between a “Hawaiian†and country tone, and after my fruitful pickup experiments, I don’t think the presence of unused pedals or a changer would make a noticeable difference in the tone. In my case, I think the biggest thing is the location of the pickup, with #2 being the single coil low Z pickup with no mid peaking. I did look at lots of pictures of Hawaiian steels though, and their pickups are pretty close to the bridge, which surprised me:
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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