Diminished seventh chords

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

My take on diminished seventh chords.

Free lesson!

https://youtu.be/5KIoJQbPjfI
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Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Nice video, perfect balance between voice and guitar and guitar sounds Smile

My tip for diminished chords to think of them as (rootless) 7b9 voicings. (works 99% of the time)

Once you realize that any one of the 4 notes in that diminshed chord can be lowered to become the root note of a dominant 7th chord then youll see chord positions connect in a totally new a cool way.
Since the voicing repeats every 3 frets up or down, your 7b9 voicing will maximum be 1 fret away from the current chord you are playing Wink

If only using 3 notes then this diminished triad would contain either...

3rd 5th b7th

or

5th b7th b9th

or

b7th b9th 3rd

or

b9th 3rd 5th

in some order depending on strings and position

The 3rd that is present inside this diminished triad will in many cases be going up a halfstep and become the Root of the next chord.

B.Erlandsen

Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

Paul that's wonderful information and great demonstration of the chords. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Michael Hill · From: Arizona, USA

Awesome! When I started playing, I must have watched all of Paul's videos at least 5 times each.

Andy Henriksen · From: Michigan, USA

I really enjoyed that video, and it focused on a definite weak spot in my playing (one of many!)

Here's my question - I was able to sort of replicate what you were doing in the video by using the dim chords to pass between the I and IV, etc., and it sounded ok...musical even.

But how do you know when that sort of embellishment is going to sound good in the real world? I tried inserting those passing chords into a few simple I IV V songs I know while playing along, and it mostly didn't work.

Does the whole band need to be on board the diminished train for those chords to work?

Gary Cosden · From: Florida, USA

Great job! Thanks for the video

Allan Haley · From: British Columbia, Canada

Thanks, Paul. That's a big gap in my steel playing.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Andy: Using diminished chords does not require that the whole band play the same thing as you. BUT if they are not also playing diminished you must pass through your diminished chord or arpeggio quickly because certain of your notes will be dissonant, and the ear can only tolerate dissonance in small doses. You are creating tension in the music, which can be good, but it needs to be resolved fairly quickly. Major chords are fully resolved. Diminished chords and passages leave you hanging.

This is like throwing an exotic spice into a favorite recipe. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.
Experimentation is the only way to discover what works. And what tastes/sounds good to one person may not be someone else's cup of tea.

The main purpose of my video is to encourage you to broaden the range of your experimentation. Don't be afraid of mistakes. That's how we learn.
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

If you’re playing through a I-IV-V and want to throw in a diminished chord between all the changes, it helps if applying 7th chords sounds right for the song. Try this first:

G / / / G7 / / / C / / / C7 / / / D / / / D7 / / / G / / / D7 / / /

Then try throwing in the G#°, C#°, and D#° on the last two beats of each 7th chord. Like Paul said, if the rest of the band is not on board with your diminished chord fetish, you can create some unwanted dissonance with both the music and your bandmates if you hang on it too long.

Diminished chords were a source of confusion for me until (like Bengt) I understood them as V7b9 to the chord following it, which is how they are used most of the time. An instance when they are not would be this:

G / / / G° / / / Am7 / / / D7 / / /

which is a fairly common harmonic mechanism in swing and gypsy jazz. There is a way to construe the G° as a V7b9 in that progression with substitution, but it’s way out there in the weeds.

Excellent topic and well done on the video, Paul.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Fred: What do you mean by "V7b9"? What does the "V" refer to?

Okay, I just looked up V7B9 on the net and apparently the "V" simply means it's the dominant 7th.

So what do you mean by "V7b9 to the chord following it"? Does that mean that if you are going from an E to an A you could play an A V7b9 as the leading chord? That does not work to my ear. It must mean something else.
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

The 5 chord. As in D7 is the 5 of G.

In this progression [ G / C / A / D ] G can be thought of as the 5 of C, A7 is the 5 of D, and D is the 5 of G. Any of those chords can be substituted with their associated diminished chords (G#Â°, A#Â°, and D#Â°), as well as their fourth note extensions (GÂ°7, etc.). But as you stated, the length of time you hang on a diminished chord is a matter of taste. I would precede the diminished chord with a IIm7 of the approach chord (C) so it ends up looking like a straight ahead IIm-V-I, like this
Dm7 / G7b9 / C
The G7b9 can be thought of as G#Â°7, but thatâ€™s not the way my brain works. The same thing can be done with A to D and D to G.

What you were doing in the video was a little more straight ahead, going from the major right to the diminished, which certainly works well enough, especially when there are only 4 beats of each chord.

Clear as mud, right?

Pete Bailey · From: Seattle, WA

Another really useful video, thanks Paul! I was able to put some diminished passing chords to use right away in my practice sessions over the last few days. Opens up a lot of new possibilities. More please! Smile

Steve Mueller · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Good stuff!
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Bob Quinn · From: Washington, USA

Hi Paul, New here...a beginner..sort of. I've been watching your Youtube vids and getting a lot out of them. I watched your vid on passing chords maybe last night. The vid on palm muting and right hand position was really helpful. I'm a long time fingerstyle guitar player...turns out my position is ok at least as suggested on your vid. So, Thanks..I'll keep watching and learning!
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Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Thanks all for the gracious comments.

Bob Quinn: Regarding the right hand, I am very comfortable with the technique that I use that has developed over many years. And I'm far too old to bother trying to learn new right hand technique. BUT I am also far less adamant about right hand technique than I once was, or was when I made the video. There are many excellent players that can play circles around me that do not palm block.

So I encourage you to explore various right hand techniques, and then concentrate on what seems to work best for you.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Andy Henriksen · From: Michigan, USA

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Very valuable info here....great to have so many insights and approaches shared
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"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Paul, great stuff. This has helped me a lot on understanding diminished chords. It's also a great video of proper right hand technique. Nice and clear camera shot.

Thanks for the Christmas present to all of us.

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