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Topic: A nutty question |
Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 7:09 am |
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What is the purpose of the nut on the pedal rods, down by the ball-joint connector? Every time I check them, they've gone loose again & it's beginning to bug me.
The ball-joint connector is on the left side of my pedals. The ball is locked in the socket so the rod's not going to detach there. The only thing I can think of is that each pedal mash causes the pedal rod to torque slightly clockwise so eventually the rod unscrews from the connector.
It doesn't seem right they go loose all the time. I have a modern guitar - the pedals look like they're pulling straight up and down. But maybe loose nuts is proof that there is movement on the threads???
This is a good thread (insert pun here) but I couldn't find the exact answer. https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=194121&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=ball+joint+nut&start=25
Finally, I hesitate to glue the nuts down as a permanent solution because I may have to tinker with guitar height yet.
Thoughts? |
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Tom Sosbe
From:
Rushville,In
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 7:18 am
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| those hex nuts are locking nuts. use a wrench and tighten them down on the ball-joint connecters. they keep the connecter from moving. |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 7:24 am
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Frank, same thing happens to me. I tighten down the nut but I keep meaning to put some Loc-tite product on the threads (Loc n Seal, maybe?) to hold the nut in place but not make it impossible to get off.
Anybody else try this?
Chris |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 7:28 am
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| Tom Sosbe wrote: |
| those hex nuts are locking nuts. use a wrench and tighten them down on the ball-joint connecters. they keep the connecter from moving. |
Thanks, Tom.
So the straight 12 o'clock - 6 o'clock mash creates creates sideways movement on the rod, loosening the connector? |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 7:29 am
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| Chris Brooks wrote: |
Frank, same thing happens to me. I tighten down the nut but I keep meaning to put some Loc-tite product on the threads (Loc n Seal, maybe?) to hold the nut in place but not make it impossible to get off.
Anybody else try this?
Chris |
But Chris, don't you want to know WHY it happens and keeps happening??? |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 9:40 am
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I've thought about that too; seems to me the "torqueing" hypothesis is probably accurate. My fix--every time I set up/take down a steel I hand-twist each pedal rod nut to tighten it up, because they do tend to come a little loose. Eventually, of course,the movement will change pedal height, but getting it back to (or changing) where it's supposed to be is pretty easy.
Once I left my Super Pro in the case for probably a couple of years. When I took it out, the pedal rod nuts were all frozen, and it took some cussin' and elbow grease to get them free so I could tweak the pedal height. |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 10:25 am
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| Dave Hopping wrote: |
I've thought about that too; seems to me the "torqueing" hypothesis is probably accurate. My fix--every time I set up/take down a steel I hand-twist each pedal rod nut to tighten it up, because they do tend to come a little loose. Eventually, of course,the movement will change pedal height, but getting it back to (or changing) where it's supposed to be is pretty easy.
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Once they're adjusted properly (again), I'm going to mark the proper height of the nut on the rod with nail polish or White-Out to remove the guesswork.
OK Dave, you like the torque hypothesis. So why are the nuts always loosening, and not tightening down on the connector? Is there a physicist or mechanical engineer in the house? |
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Tom Sosbe
From:
Rushville,In
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 10:56 am
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| how old is your guitar? could be the threads on the nuts are worn out |
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 11:08 am
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Once I get them where I like them, I take a wrench and REALLY tighten them. They will usually stay for a long time. A bit of nail polish or blue thread locker would not hurt if it is really an issue for you.
I think when you step on the pedals there is enough flex in the rod, or possibly stretch would be a better term, that the connector will eventually work loose. Even though it looks like the rod is moving straight up and down that is not what is really happening. Hundreds of tiny little movements add up. |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 11:27 am
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| Frank Freniere wrote: |
| Dave Hopping wrote: |
I've thought about that too; seems to me the "torqueing" hypothesis is probably accurate. My fix--every time I set up/take down a steel I hand-twist each pedal rod nut to tighten it up, because they do tend to come a little loose. Eventually, of course,the movement will change pedal height, but getting it back to (or changing) where it's supposed to be is pretty easy.
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Once they're adjusted properly (again), I'm going to mark the proper height of the nut on the rod with nail polish or White-Out to remove the guesswork.
OK Dave, you like the torque hypothesis. So why are the nuts always loosening, and not tightening down on the connector? Is there a physicist or mechanical engineer in the house? |
I majored in Sociology, so I know nothing whatever about real engineering.Just the social kind!  |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 11:29 am
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| Doug Earnest wrote: |
I think when you step on the pedals there is enough flex in the rod, or possibly stretch would be a better term, that the connector will eventually work loose. Even though it looks like the rod is moving straight up and down that is not what is really happening. Hundreds of tiny little movements add up. |
Thanks for the reply, Doug - I think I get it now. It's the rod's tiny movements back and forth that loosen the connector, not the nut. And tightening down the nut is supposed to hold the connector in place.
Except when it doesn't. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 3:42 pm
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At least if these get loose there steel easy to hook over roll pin.
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George Biner
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 5:01 pm
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I wouldn't put any goop or paint or anything on it -- what you need is a lock-nut - just another nut identical to the one that's coming loose, tighten it up next to it -- voila, it won't go anywhere and you haven't gooped anything up -- I speak from experience~!
_________________
Guacamole Mafia - acoustic harmony duo
Electrical engineer / amp tech in West Los Angeles -- I fix Peaveys
"Now there is a snappy sounding instrument. That f****r really sings." - Jerry Garcia |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 5:05 pm
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| I took mine pedal rods to the garage and clamped the rod in the vice. Wrap rod in a rag so not to scratch it up. Hold the ball clamp end with a small channel lock, then take a small open end wrench and tighten the lock nut. Never come loose again. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 5:23 pm
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Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never had this problem except when I adjust rod length and haven't tightened the nut good.
Of course it's a nuisance if you are breaking down or setting up and the loose nut has let your connector turn and messed up your adjustment. That's the purpose of the nut...to maintain the rod length adjustment, of course.
I just make sure the nut is tight while in place connected to the pedal by torqueing the thing down good with the proper wrench. The pedal will hold it in place and you can really apply good torque. Never used any threadlocker on these fittings.
Out of a dozen or so brands and models, I've never had one come loose by just playing, provided the nut was torqued good to start with. |
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Peter Harris
From:
South Australia, Australia
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Posted 12 Dec 2020 3:10 am
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Back off the nut and mark the connector's position on the rod...
Dis-assemble and place a toothed lockwasher on the rod between the connector and the nut...
Re-assemble and return connector to the previous position on the rod..
Tighten down the nut onto the toothed lockwasher.....
...works well for any rod-operated linkage.. 
_________________
If my wife is reading this, I don't have much stuff....really! |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2020 10:26 pm
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Some one may have lubed the connection with some super lube. Maybe even to much Tri-Flo. Take them apart and clean inside threads and rod threads with acetone or starting fluid then reassemble and snug the nut down.
Use no lube on Locking connections. |
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