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Topic: Split problem |
Dean Simmons
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 1:35 pm |
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Hey fellers!
I'm a newbie here and been playing steel for only about 7 months (30+ yrs on telecaster previously)
I just changed the strings on my Sho-Bud LDG for the 4th time since I got it, and this time having an issue where:
RKL lowers string 5 a 1/2 step when open but no longer lowers with A pedal split.
I have searched around and have not been able to figure out how to fix this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 2:21 pm
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Do you have a pic of the rod set up underneath?? What is your "split tune" device? A Nylon tuner or is there a set screw drilled behind changer?? I'll guess; you have a later model triple raise/double lower changer?? and rods that are bent to hook on the pullers on crossbars?? As ShoBud LDG had 5 different mechanisms throughout the history; and it's hard to tell you what to do, when I don't know which Mech to fix...ha...
So if triple/double and regular split tune extra raise rod will go to the Lowering puller closest to bottom from the nylon tuner on last raise hole on finger. So you should have the other two nylon tuners on the raise for 5th string on first two raise holes going to A pedal and C pedal.
Ok if that is the set up....here's how you tune it.
Tune open 5th string to B. Now push A pedal and turn the nylon that raises it to C#. (don't worry bout B to C# for C pedal it probably didn't mess up). Now with A pedal pressed to C# note; you now lower the knee and tune the lowering nylon tuner to C. Now with no pedals or knees pushed; lower the B note with knee lever and now it will go way flat of Bb; so turn it to raise it back up to Bb. Now you have it split tuned.
Now if the string has been fine until you changed strings; you might check if you put the gauge you had before on; as that will change leverages. I won't even go into the spring problems there may be yet; or the possible over tuning of the string yet...> or the distance prob. that may be with stops for any of those moves. Start with that.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 2:41 pm
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deleted
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.
Last edited by C Dixon on 5 Sep 2020 5:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dean Simmons
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 3:46 pm
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Thanks so much for your replies!
This was working properly before I inadvertently put slightly different gauge on. I had SIT SHOE9th and I evidently ordered SIT Buddy Emmons Sig Series, so that started my issues. First, my A pedal was not reaching pitch. I think I over tuned the nylon tuner. I did some research and ended up lowering the stop for the A pedal, giving it more travel. This solved the problem, but evidently, probably caused my problem with the split now.
I think I am likely dealing with the over-tuning, distance problem as with the pedal pushed, the lever has no tension, not engaging the string. And I have the one nylon tuner which indeed lowers the string 1/2 step when open (no pedal). I'm thinking maybe I should move the stop screw to give the knee lever more travel but that seems like a long way to have to push it.
I just took several pics. She's a beauty, and I didn't realize how dirty she is underneath until I took those pics! I have this LDG on indefinite loan from a friend (dear friend of my wife's who is now unable to play for health reasons) where it sat in her garage for the last 18 years, so when I mentioned I would love to play around with a pedal steel, she said, "Come get it and knock youself out!" I owe her big time and may end up just buying from her one day if she decides to sell it.
So I clearly know very little of what I'm doing here and really appreciate your willingess to help me out!
Here it is: Glad to finally be a member here. 
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 4:08 pm
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deleted
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.
Last edited by C Dixon on 5 Sep 2020 5:15 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Dean Simmons
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 4:21 pm
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Thanks!
Old set
.013 .015 .011 .014 .017 .020P .026w .030w .034w .036w
New set
.012 .015 .011 .014 .018 .022P .026w .030w .034w .038w
Yep, that'll do it. Dammit. Maybe I should just junk these strings and start over with the right set.
Last edited by Dean Simmons on 30 Aug 2020 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 4:29 pm
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deleted
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.
Last edited by C Dixon on 5 Sep 2020 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 4:53 pm
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Ok look at this pic I saved and put a red line around the 5th string already being pulled(raised)in idle position.
So NO; it is not the wrong gauge thing; as that would be a small leverage fix...this string being pulled(over-tuned) is a HUGE prob. Sooooooo
Back off the nylon tuner raise, so that that raise section comes back. Also back off the lowering nylon tuner so it's not affecting. OH and you don't have a extra raise rod to "split tune" so you're not split tuning...just raising and lowering. Now Retune open 5th String to B. Now return the A pedal nylon tune in to where it just almost hits the finger; so there's a little slack before it pulls; and now push the A pedal and if it doesn't get to C#; then back out the Stop for that pedal pull on front apron, so that it reaches C#. Then you should be able to go from B to C# and back to B with no prob. Now do the same with the lower; just screw in the nylon to lower where it almost hits...now engage that lever to lower and turn the stop screw for that Bb distance in or out..> Now you have both the raise and lower without the changer being out of idle position and so the pedal down C# to C will be very close if not perfect with the .018p actually. Dean; I work on Sho~bud restorations for that last 25 years and the Sho~bud is a 24" scale and really needs the proper tension strings for that scale and these are what I use and makes the playing much dreamier...ha..
.013p, .015p, .012p, .014p, .018p
.022w, .026w, .030w, .034w, .038w
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 5:04 pm
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deleted
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.
Last edited by C Dixon on 5 Sep 2020 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 7:33 pm
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Thanks Carl; been a long time since I've seen you on here> GREAT to see ya again.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2020 7:56 pm
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deleted
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.
Last edited by C Dixon on 5 Sep 2020 5:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dean Simmons
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2020 11:40 am
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| Thanks so much guys! Yes Ricky, you saved the day! It was actually my C pedal I had overtuned that was the culprit. I have it rectified where it is no longer being pulled and now the lever indeed lowers the string witn the A (or C) pedal engaged, but still have an issue where the pedals OR lever operate in tune, but when the lever is engaged with the A pedal, the resulting note is 25 cents flat, and with the C pedal, 15 cents flat. I followed your instructions from you first, reply as well, Ricky, but I'm sure I'm missing something here. Thank you SO much for the help!! Almost there! |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2020 12:31 pm
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Ok Dean; there's MORE!!ha.... it's really all a balancing act that I have perfected; but all the devices have to be there for every pull to leverage right.
First off; the pedal rod should be pulling the cross bar from the middle hole on all three pedals and hook them all on the way the 1st pedal is hooked on with open end pointing in. Then the A pedal rollers in the pullers are NOT suppose to be in the furthest hole from bottom of guitar...those are usually for the lowers not the raises. So if you do and can take that clip out and move the rollers to the bottom hole; that A pedal rod should run under that C pedal rod that's cut in half; to run straight with no friction. Also the reason you had to turn you nylon tuner too far to try and get the C pedal to raise the 5th string...is because your 4th string was pulling too quick as it's in the wrong pulling hole too..ha.. but if you have the 4th string pulling to F# and 5th string to C# currently after fixing the over pull in idle position; leave it alone...were good on that. Also for the balancing act on A pedal and lowering....you need the raise spring back on the 5th string someone took off....don't have on...ok you can take the one off the 6th string(don't need it in any way) and move it to 5th string you can see where it hooks to bracket. Now if you get the rods pulling from the right positions now... retune everything and start with B to C# on A pedal and now it won't be pulling near as far with it from that previous roller position...so get the distance with the stop. Ok Boom you have B to C# on A pedal. Now B to Bb on the lower in tune. NOOOOOW to B to C# on pedal and hit the lower now and I betcha got a nice C note now??? ha...
Sorry; there's a lot of work and it might take you a little time to get that stuff changed around right...but that's how you learn it bro. Yes I could walk up to it and change the WHOLE copedent and positions...in 10 minutes...but that's because that's what I do every day for 25 years now....so YOUR TURN>...have fun...good luck.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2020 12:39 pm
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deleted
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.
Last edited by C Dixon on 5 Sep 2020 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2020 2:47 pm
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Carl he and we were only talking about a split on the 5th string B note. B to C# to C and B to Bb to C. Not the 6th string full tone lower with split. Or not B full tone lower either. Only half tone on B. As it is much easier to get a "Natural" split with Full tone raise and half tone lower and half tone lower; with full tone raise...to the same note..with that balance of details I mapped out above. It really is a balancing act with leverages that happen. It certainly CAN NOT happen naturally in any way...with the opposite >half raise full tone lower> so yes you certainly need a split tune rod to screw behind changer for that.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2020 3:33 pm
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deleted
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.
Last edited by C Dixon on 5 Sep 2020 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2020 4:40 pm
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No Prob...C. I understand...and yeah between the leverages and string guages of 5th and 6th...hard to compare.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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