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Topic: Vintage Rickenbacker NS Question |
Suzanne Shafer
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2020 8:55 pm |
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I love my mid-40's Rickenbacher Electro NS, but it is very difficult to play in tune on the 5th string/1st fret, and the 4th string tends to buzz against the bar. I think both problems may be due to the nut not being grooved deeply enough for the 5th string, so it requires more pressure on the bar to play that string close to the nut, and also creates a gap between the bar and the 4th string when it rests on strings 5 and 3. But then, what do I know? I'm a beginner at this.
So, can someone tell me whether I'm on the right track, and whether it can be fixed? The nut appears to be affixed to the body with adhesive, and while I'm pretty handy this is not something I'd want to tackle on my own. If it can be fixed, is it something that can safely be done by any guitar repair shop, or do I need to find someone specializing in vintage Rics?
Thanks for any helpful advice.
_________________
If you strive to become a good human being, with the qualities of generosity, humility, and having reverence for life…just maybe you’ll become a great musician. ~ Charlie Haden
1945-6 RickenbacHer NS, Gretsch Bobtail G9230, Rogue RLS-1 (to take motorcycle camping) |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 5 Aug 2020 10:55 pm
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Having a new nut made made could probably be handled by most guitar techs, but you’d ideally find someone with lap steel experience.
Before going there though, there are a couple other easier options to try. A lighter gauge 5Th string or heavier gauge 4Th string might be all you need.
Here is a good string gauge chart,
https://www.hawaiiansteel.com/graphics/pdf/string_gauge_chart.pdf By John Ely.
You can usually go a bit lighter or heavier than the chart suggestions. Because lap steels don’t have flexible, truss rod necks, higher string tension is more likely to affect playability or cause a string to break, before it will hurt the instrument
If you give us your tuning, I’m sure someone will pipe in with some suggestions for your particular tuning.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Suzanne Shafer
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2020 6:59 am
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Thanks, Allan. I use a C6 tuning with GHS strings, guages 026 and DY30 on the 4th and 5th strings. That puts the 4th string already on the heavy end of the range John recommends, and the 5th in the the middle. I use to these sizes simply because that's what comes in the Elderly string set for C6. Your thoughts on how much heavier/lighter to go?
_________________
If you strive to become a good human being, with the qualities of generosity, humility, and having reverence for life…just maybe you’ll become a great musician. ~ Charlie Haden
1945-6 RickenbacHer NS, Gretsch Bobtail G9230, Rogue RLS-1 (to take motorcycle camping) |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 6 Aug 2020 9:05 am
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| Suzanne Shafer wrote: |
| Thanks, Allan. I use a C6 tuning with GHS strings, guages 026 and DY30 on the 4th and 5th strings. That puts the 4th string already on the heavy end of the range John recommends, and the 5th in the the middle. I use to these sizes simply because that's what comes in the Elderly string set for C6. Your thoughts on how much heavier/lighter to go? |
Hi Suzanne, I don’t use a C6 tuning, so I’m reluctant to be more specific than what John Ely recommends. I’d feel confident going .002 plus/minus his recommendations, but beyond that, I’d wait for one of the more experienced C6 players to post here.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Suzanne Shafer
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2020 9:09 am
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Will do. Thanks again.
_________________
If you strive to become a good human being, with the qualities of generosity, humility, and having reverence for life…just maybe you’ll become a great musician. ~ Charlie Haden
1945-6 RickenbacHer NS, Gretsch Bobtail G9230, Rogue RLS-1 (to take motorcycle camping) |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2020 10:26 am
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You shouldn't go any heavier than .026 on the 4th string G, or any lighter than .030 on the 5th string E. I don't think that string gauges are the problem.
Your guitar was made before C6th tuning was popular. I suspect that the nut was grooved for a heavier 4th string. The popular A Major tuning of the time was A C# E A C# E (low to high). Notice that the largest interval is between the 3rd and 4th string, which is the smallest interval of the C6th. The difference in grooves between those two strings is the likely cause of your problem.
A new nut is the best solution. Keep the old one in your case to maintain resale value.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Suzanne Shafer
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2020 10:31 am
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That makes sense, Bob. Thank you. Is there a person/shop you would trust to do this work?
_________________
If you strive to become a good human being, with the qualities of generosity, humility, and having reverence for life…just maybe you’ll become a great musician. ~ Charlie Haden
1945-6 RickenbacHer NS, Gretsch Bobtail G9230, Rogue RLS-1 (to take motorcycle camping) |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2020 2:40 pm
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| Suzanne Shafer wrote: |
| That makes sense, Bob. Thank you. Is there a person/shop you would trust to do this work? |
Sorry, I don't know who is in that business. I'm sure you could replace the nut yourself, if you can find a suitable part.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Suzanne Shafer
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2020 2:50 pm
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Thanks for the vote of confidence but that's a pretty big IF for someone who knows as little as I do about guitars.  Also, I've already tried and failed to figure out how to get the nut off. It appears to be very firmly mounted on the guitar with an adhesive.
I'm hoping someone else will see this thread and be able to point me towards a craftsman who knows these guitars.
_________________
If you strive to become a good human being, with the qualities of generosity, humility, and having reverence for life…just maybe you’ll become a great musician. ~ Charlie Haden
1945-6 RickenbacHer NS, Gretsch Bobtail G9230, Rogue RLS-1 (to take motorcycle camping) |
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David Venzke
From:
SE Michigan, USA
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Suzanne Shafer
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2020 5:35 pm
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I'm in eastern Oregon, just across the border from Walla Walla, WA. I assume that folks with these skills would most likely be near Portland, which would be fine. I will reach out to Todd. Thanks for his name.
_________________
If you strive to become a good human being, with the qualities of generosity, humility, and having reverence for life…just maybe you’ll become a great musician. ~ Charlie Haden
1945-6 RickenbacHer NS, Gretsch Bobtail G9230, Rogue RLS-1 (to take motorcycle camping) |
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Suzanne Shafer
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2020 6:11 pm
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I contacted Todd, as recommended, and he suggested that I contact The 12th Fret, in Portland, where a steel-playing friend of his works. I love that city and am overdue for a visit so I'm enthusiastically planning to do just that. Thank you to all who replied.
_________________
If you strive to become a good human being, with the qualities of generosity, humility, and having reverence for life…just maybe you’ll become a great musician. ~ Charlie Haden
1945-6 RickenbacHer NS, Gretsch Bobtail G9230, Rogue RLS-1 (to take motorcycle camping) |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2020 11:17 am
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| I have had many similar issues with vintage steels. They all stem from the string slots in the nut and are revealed when you place the bar on the first fret. I have been able to resolve them by filing the slots deeper for the strings surrounding the string that buzzes. It's not terribly difficult but if you are unsure of your skills, a competent luthier could easily do the job. I seriously doubt the nut needs to be replaced. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 11 Aug 2020 11:25 am
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| Tim Whitlock wrote: |
| I have had many similar issues with vintage steels. They all stem from the string slots in the nut and are revealed when you place the bar on the first fret. I have been able to resolve them by filing the slots deeper for the strings surrounding the string that buzzes. It's not terribly difficult but if you are unsure of your skills, a competent luthier could easily do the job. I seriously doubt the nut needs to be replaced. |
I have had similar problems with a couple guitars (both 50s consoles, a stringmaster and magnatone). The problem with these guitars is that have machined steel nuts that a person like me is not going to be able to adjust! For the Fender I had Jimmie Hudson machine me a couple replacement nuts (and I keep the originals for reinstallation). For the Magnatone.......well, I just mash down harder with the bar, for now!
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Suzanne Shafer
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2020 12:09 pm
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Thanks Nic and Tim. Nice to know I'm not alone. Until it occurred to me to look at the nut I thought it was just something I was doing wrong as a new player. Didn't feel much better once I'd looked closely at the nut because I was pretty sure it was something I shouldn't tackle myself...which is saying something because I'm DIY to the bones.
_________________
If you strive to become a good human being, with the qualities of generosity, humility, and having reverence for life…just maybe you’ll become a great musician. ~ Charlie Haden
1945-6 RickenbacHer NS, Gretsch Bobtail G9230, Rogue RLS-1 (to take motorcycle camping) |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 11 Aug 2020 9:00 pm
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| I had a similar Rick NS for a while. I’m almost certain that the nut on this model is plastic. I’m not sure if that makes the issue any easier to fix. If you’re handy, you could try making your own replacement out of a hard wood. Keeping the original I the case of course. |
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