| Author |
Topic: Levered console steel |
Dean Gray
From:
New South Wales, Australia
|
Posted 9 Jun 2020 10:32 pm |
|
I've been having crazy thoughts lately, where I can alter individual notes of my non pedal tuning via knee levers.
I guess I am talking about a PSG without pedals, but as I learn more about my A6/9 tuning, I would love to be able to flat the maj 3rd to min, raise/lower the 5th and raise the 6th to min7 and maj7 (via half stop).
I know there are plenty of subs and slants which I love and will continue to use/learn/study, but I think these basic changes will add more utility all round.
And there is no set up time involved, other than screwing the legs in. You flip it over and 4 knee levers are waiting right there! And ideally, unlike a PSG, it would have Stringmaster or Jerry Byrd Excel string spacing.
If you are a non pedal A6 or C6 player, what 4 interval moves would you like to be a available under a straight bar?
_________________
If it’s on the ground it can’t fall down. |
|
|
 |
Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
|
Posted 9 Jun 2020 11:56 pm
|
|
Once you’ve introduced that level of mechanical complexity, I think you’ve left the Land of Lap Steel behind. Your idea is definitely cool and intriguing, but it seems to me that you’re talking about an entry level four-pedal lap steel with knee levers instead of pedals.
Still, no harm in exploring an interesting idea...
The more I learn, the less I know 
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G6 – e G D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 12:27 am
|
|
I know nothing about lap steel, except that most of the pedals on a C6 pedal steel replicate common bar slants.
So if on a C6 non-pedal tuning you could lower G and E and raise C then you could play complete chords instead of having to miss out the unusable note that's between two frets when you slant.
I admit that this would be turning a deer into a rhinoceros, but having just levers and no pedals is a good piece of outside-the-box thinking 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 2:48 am
|
|
I built a 10 string guitar with three knee levers out of stray ShoBud, MSA and Miller parts. I keep it in either C6(with pedal 2,3+5 functions) or E13 depending on the gig. It's pretty handy.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Danelectro, Evans, Fender, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
|
|
|
Mike Anderson
From:
British Columbia, Canada
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 4:57 am
|
|
Isn't that kinda what Carson Wells built for Tom Morrell? Not levers exactly, but here's a pic:
 |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 5:07 am
|
|
Kevin, those three functions are exactly what I was thinking.
Dean's "crazy thoughts" aren't so crazy.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Dean Gray
From:
New South Wales, Australia
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 5:30 am
|
|
| K Maul wrote: |
I built a 10 string guitar with three knee levers out of stray ShoBud, MSA and Miller parts. I keep it in either C6(with pedal 2,3+5 functions) or E13 depending on the gig. It's pretty handy.
|
Kevin, thats just the kind of thing I was thinking of! I knew someone must have done it already.
I am still busy working on non-pedal techniques and waiting for my Jerry Byrd course to arrive. I reckon that will keep me busy for at least a year (or 10!), but at some point I can see the benefit in having slants AND knee levers at my disposal.
Thanks for the speedy response.
Mike, I hadn't heard of or seen that Steel of Tom's, do those levers change to different preset tunings like the Fuzzy/Excel model?
_________________
If it’s on the ground it can’t fall down. |
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 6:32 am
|
|
if you want knees and no floor pedals and you want to keep it simple, then just buy you an old pedal guitar that has at least 4 knee levers and just use the knees and dont use the pedals. you could add a couple more knees going up if you wanted more. there are also wrist levers you can use. something as simple as a hip shot will get you an easy half step raise. the lowers are a bit tricky.
just beware....you are entering dangerous territory messing around with pedal guitars.... |
|
|
|
Mike Anderson
From:
British Columbia, Canada
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 6:48 am
|
|
| Dean Gray wrote: |
Mike, I hadn't heard of or seen that Steel of Tom's, do those levers change to different preset tunings like the Fuzzy/Excel model? |
Dean, no idea I'm afraid. Seems I might have even read a post at some point saying he didn't use them much if at all. |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 6:53 am
|
|
I spent many years playing non-pedal guitar.
The only reason I went to pedal steel was to give me the ability to get more full three string chords. 
Erv |
|
|
|
Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 10:24 pm
|
|
I heard a story kind of recently about a steel player in the 50s who had a good gig with an established singer. The bandleader didn't want any 'new fangled pedal steel' nonsense on stage, but the steel player managed to sneak in a couple knee levers inconspicuously. 😅 I'm sorry I can't recall the details...
Your idea sounds great. Using an old pedal steel as mentioned above would work, except that the string spacing might be a slight issue...
For what its worth, I noticed someone listed a Fender 400 without pedals for sale here on the forum for a good price. They dont generally have levers but you could possibly find a way to rig something up. |
|
|
|
Dean Gray
From:
New South Wales, Australia
|
Posted 10 Jun 2020 10:59 pm
|
|
| Andrew Frost wrote: |
I heard a story kind of recently about a steel player in the 50s who had a good gig with an established singer. The bandleader didn't want any 'new fangled pedal steel' nonsense on stage, but the steel player managed to sneak in a couple knee levers inconspicuously. 😅 I'm sorry I can't recall the details...
Your idea sounds great. Using an old pedal steel as mentioned above would work, except that the string spacing might be a slight issue...
For what its worth, I noticed someone listed a Fender 400 without pedals for sale here on the forum for a good price. They dont generally have levers but you could possibly find a way to rig something up. |
I love this story! Wonder who it was? I don't think I want to play with standard PSG spacing, I need at least Stringmaster spacing to hit split slants cleanly. I think the idea could work, and I'm in no rush, my D8 is more than enough for now. I think if I ever bite the bullet and do this I will commission a custom Williams steel guitar. Possibly a D10, one neck my A6/9 with levers, the other some kind of non pedal E13 or possibly diatonic. With wide string spacing. Lots to practice on my 8 string A6 first though.
_________________
If it’s on the ground it can’t fall down. |
|
|
|
Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
|
Posted 11 Jun 2020 1:11 am
|
|
| Dean Gray wrote: |
| Andrew Frost wrote: |
I heard a story kind of recently about a steel player in the 50s who had a good gig with an established singer. The bandleader didn't want any 'new fangled pedal steel' nonsense on stage, but the steel player managed to sneak in a couple knee levers inconspicuously. 😅 I'm sorry I can't recall the details...
Your idea sounds great. Using an old pedal steel as mentioned above would work, except that the string spacing might be a slight issue...
For what its worth, I noticed someone listed a Fender 400 without pedals for sale here on the forum for a good price. They dont generally have levers but you could possibly find a way to rig something up. |
I love this story! Wonder who it was? I don't think I want to play with standard PSG spacing, I need at least Stringmaster spacing to hit split slants cleanly. I think the idea could work, and I'm in no rush, my D8 is more than enough for now. I think if I ever bite the bullet and do this I will commission a custom Williams steel guitar. Possibly a D10, one neck my A6/9 with levers, the other some kind of non pedal E13 or possibly diatonic. With wide string spacing. Lots to practice on my 8 string A6 first though. |
That was Zane Beck. I’ve read some accounts that he claimed that’s how he invented knee levers. I don’t know if he was in fact the first to use them. |
|
|
|
Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
|
Posted 13 Jun 2020 10:38 pm
|
|
Aha, thats cool. I wonder who he was playing with.
Interested to hear how your project pans out Dean, if you get around to it. |
|
|
|
Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
|
Posted 14 Jun 2020 4:53 am
|
|
| Andrew Frost wrote: |
Aha, thats cool. I wonder who he was playing with.
Interested to hear how your project pans out Dean, if you get around to it. |
I think the bandleader was Paul Howard during a tenure on the Louisiana Hayride.
Fred |
|
|
|
Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
|
Posted 14 Jun 2020 2:08 pm
|
|
| Fred wrote: |
| Andrew Frost wrote: |
Aha, thats cool. I wonder who he was playing with.
Interested to hear how your project pans out Dean, if you get around to it. |
I think the bandleader was Paul Howard during a tenure on the Louisiana Hayride.
Fred |
Thanks Fred. |
|
|
|
