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Topic: Buddy Emmons Hand model |
Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 12 May 2020 2:26 pm |
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Hi folks. I ran across a set of photos along the trail (and text) describing proper right hand position - Buddy Emmons is credited as the “hand modelâ€. I can’t find it again... any clues?
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I'll know I'm playing good when the dog stops howling. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 May 2020 3:22 pm
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Is this kinda what you're referring to?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpoke1wt0cU
IMHO, it's fine to copy the right hand of Buddy Emmons - if that is what's most comfortable for you. We all have different physiologies, and no single way of doing things works for everybody (thankfully). I feel it's best to instead look at all the really great players (My "top 10" would likely be: Buddy Emmons, Buddy Charleton, Lloyd Green, Paul Franklin, Tommy White, Curley Chalker, Weldon Myrick, Doug Jernigan, Jimmy Crawford, and Hal Rugg) and try to find the one who's closest to what you're already doing, or what you find most comfortable. Then, work with that. 
Unless you're just starting out on this thing, there's no sense going back to square one. There are many roads that will take you where want to go.  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 May 2020 4:28 pm
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You can't copy exactly another player's hand unless he's your identical twin brother. All we can do is observe the basic principles and adapt them to our own DNA.
_________________
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Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 12 May 2020 7:17 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
IMHO, it's fine to copy the
Unless you're just starting out on this thing, there's no sense going back to square one. There are many roads that will take you where want to go. |
Thanks for the advice and the link. I'm looking at lot of different hand positions including my own, and the shapes may be different but the mechanical action is more similar than not. Like watching a good golfer, I don't have his build but the physics are the same...
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I'll know I'm playing good when the dog stops howling. |
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Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Franklin
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Posted 13 May 2020 3:29 am
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Notice how Buddy's ring fingertip is always right there in synch with his middle finger...That is how he blocks strings as his hand descends to the next group of strings. Buddy's picks blocked the strings when the picks were staying in place. (His pick blocking happens when his hand is neither ascending nor descending) Finally his palm blocked all of the strings as his hand ascends to the next group of strings.
Buddy pioneered the 3 Element technique...I hold my hand differently. I use the same 3 Elements. The only variation is I use both the ring and the pinky fingertips following the middle finger and I use the opposite side of the palm.
Hal switched to the technique as does all of the great technicians...You can still play very fast other ways but if you don't develop as Buddy did the notes will sound like they are muted like the Chicken Pickin' style or the notes will all run into the next..
The 3 element technique is why Buddy was so clean and in complete control of the instrument as he played very rapidly. Find videos of his right hand and see poetry in motion.
Jeff focused on the wrong idea. The knuckle needs to stay high if the fast fingering
is always thumb to middle finger back and forth....Towards the end for some licks Buddy started using all three fingers and his knuckle came down a bit. Neither Jeff nor Winnie explained why the ring finger was tucked under...It was brushed over as just a place to hold the ring finger...Never mentioning it was part of "E's" blocking process. |
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Jeremy Reeves
From:
Chatham, IL, USA
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Posted 13 May 2020 5:52 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| We all have different physiologies, and no single way of doing things works for everybody (thankfully). |
I think this should be the guiding principle. You need to find out how to hold your hand/wrist/arm/body comfortably so that you can execute repetitive motions without causing stress. For me I make sure my wrists are straight so that I'm not sawing away at my tendons while playing. |
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Bob Knetzger
From:
Kirkland, WA USA
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Posted 13 May 2020 9:47 am
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I think a big factor on your hand angle has to do with how you shape and wear your finger picks.
Buddy's picks seems to have a gentle curve shape so that end /point of the pick is a little bit away from tip of his finger. Putting the pick's tip onto the string to pluck naturally has the knuckles a little more open.
Many other players (like Jeff N and I think Doug Jernigan) shape and wear their finger picks differently so that they are much more curved and fit much closer to end of their finger tips. This sets up a more closed finger /flatter hand shape to put the pick's tip onto the strings to pluck.
Different? yes. Better? Uh--no. It's what ever feels best and works for you.
(I'm totally tracking with Paul F's recent thinking about blocking. For me, "pick blocking" seemed unnatural. I didn't realize I was already blocking with my third finger without thinking about it.) |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 13 May 2020 2:55 pm
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I think Buddy had fairly large hands, that perhaps had a bearing on his hand shape and picking techniques.
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 13 May 2020 3:32 pm
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| Jeremy Reeves wrote: |
| I make sure my wrists are straight so that I'm not sawing away at my tendons while playing. |
That's my first priority! I still want to be doing this when I'm even older than I am now. I also play brass instruments where the same principle is vital.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 13 May 2020 9:51 pm
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If you watch video of Buddy’s right hand fingerings, you’ll notice he was thumb dominant.
Really fast stuff was alternating thumb and index, of course.
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From Wiki...
“ About 2001, Emmons began suffering from a repetitive motion injury to his right thumb and wrist, which caused him to stop playing for over a year.â€
John |
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Ron Hogan
From:
Nashville, TN, usa
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Posted 14 May 2020 5:47 am
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Jamie, you can also follow this post as it cracks open the ring finger block. Of course this is NOT the end all path to this. Just my observation that works for me. Other experts also have their treatise on this. Paul and Tommy have a video on this subject (I haven't seen it) that dissects three parts of blocking.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=356915&highlight=
Ron |
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Thomas Stone
From:
San Francisco
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Posted 14 May 2020 8:29 pm
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James Shelton has a video on right hand technique where he talks about posture, tension, ergonomics, tendon & joint health, economy of motion, effect on tone, etc. Combining all these factors, he comes to the conclusion that the high palm angle position of the right hand is the most advantageous one. Have a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5mfJyIxzLs |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 15 May 2020 7:07 pm
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The way BE hand is shaped with natural posture his thumb and middle finger covers 3 strings.
My long skinny fingers and thumb with natural posture covers 4 strings. I have to keep my hand in a forced posture to cover a 3 string grip. "I Am Beat Before I Start".
I catch myself playing 9-8-6, 8-6-5, That allows the 7th string to fill the space in my grip for comfort and natural posture. I catch myself playing 11-10-9-8 to allow my fingers a more natural posture on my 12 string, When I shouldn't be.
I have a 9 1/4" thumb tip to little finger tip span, With a lot of thumps and damage in 76 years. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 16 May 2020 5:13 am
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| I see Buddy's and Jeff hand position being the same,,,or VERY similar. I know they worked together on Jeff's treatise on "Right Hand Alpha" because when I went to Jeff's school Buddy was in and out of there several times that week and they commented back and forth. |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 16 May 2020 7:17 am
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Jamie,
Probably all of us have been at the point where I’m guessing you are—“How do I mute those darn strings so the notes don’t run together?â€--and we would study photos or videos of master players (or sit as close as we could at live shows) to figure out the “proper†right hand position—just like you seem to be doing.
However, what many new players are not aware of is that there are at least three distinctly different right hand blocking techniques, and the “proper†right hand position for one will not work for the others!
Here's why:
1. Palm-blocking—where previously picked notes are muted with the “karate†edge of the right hand. The right hand is flat and positioned as close to the strings as possible to enable effective blocking with the edge of the hand.
Examples: Lloyd Green, Tom Brumley, Hal Rugg, Jeff Newman, Doug Jernigan, and many others.
Some of these players keep their little finger extended straight out (Green, Brumley); others curl their ring or little finger against their palm to “extend†the blocking area of their palm (Rugg, Jernigan, Newman).
2. Pick-blocking (more accurately, “fingertip blockingâ€, according to Paul Franklin)--where previously picked notes are muted by the fingertips and side of the thumb as well as by the fingerpicks. The right hand is usually about an inch or so above the strings--to allow freedom of movement.
Examples: Paul Franklin, Joe Wright, Barbara Mandrell.
3. Buddy Emmons’ “hybrid†approach—which combines palm-blocking and fingertip blocking--as Paul Franklin explains above. Buddy played most (if not all) single-note passages with just his thumb and middle finger, almost like a "two-part flatpick".
Buddy kept the back part of his palm close to the strings to mute the thumb-picked notes, while the front part was about an inch or so above the strings so his ring fingertip could block the notes played by his middle finger. This method allowed Buddy to play very fast and crisply.
Examples: Buddy Emmons, Buddy Charleton.
If you take a look at videos of some of these players, you will soon realize why the “proper†right hand position for one will not work on the others...
In the first couple of minutes of this interview by Paul Franklin, Lloyd demonstrates his palm-blocking style:
A Conversation With Lloyd Green (Part 4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7dnjEGqtis
Great close-ups at 9:34.
Here’s a clip showing Buddy’s picking style:
Buddy Emmons - Steel Guitar Rag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0fk2KkBc2M
Closeups start about 0:30.
Choo Choo Cha Boogie Jeff Newman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EiqHdlayFM
Closeups start about 0:56.
As Paul Franklin points out on this thread, it’s a bit odd that Jeff Newman used a photo of Buddy Emmons’ right hand—because Jeff himself was a palm blocker, and like Rugg, Jernigan, and many others, tucked his ring finger under his right hand to block the notes with the top surface of his finger—which raised his right hand slightly above the strings—but he was not using his ring-finger tip like Emmons did, which raised Buddy's hand even more.
As the saying goes, “form follows function†and I’d suggest rather than trying to figure out how to block effectively from studying photos of various “proper†positions, just learn to block the notes effectively (and ergonomically) and don’t worry what your hand looks like.
If you want to learn fingertip blocking, Paul Franklin explains how to do it in his online course.
Here are two short clips by Paul:
The Do's & Don'ts of Pick Blocking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBPXH2-AX_0&app=desktop
Paul's Picking and Blocking Technique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFumqjf8dRs&app=desktop
Joe Wright explains how he does fingertip and palm blocking on a DVD:
Palm/Pick Blocking Concepts
http://pedalsteel.com/ashop/index.php?product=144
Years ago I wrote up step-by-step instructions on how to palm-block effectively (and ergonomically) for a couple of students. Some folks on the Forum asked me for a copy, and I heard that they found it helpful.
If you’d like a copy send me an email (use the “Email†button at the bottom of this post) and I’ll send you a copy—no charge.
- Dave |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 17 May 2020 1:13 pm
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| Franklin wrote: |
| Notice how Buddy's ring fingertip is always right there in synch with his middle finger. |
Watching this very excellent compilation of archival footage of many of the greats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAI7ggzeOEw&feature=emb_rel_end
I noticed that this was very true of Jerry Byrd, too. A great closeup at about 35:14 shows his right hand very clearly. The passage from 35:23 with double stops and single notes is cleanly blocked and his palm is nowhere near the strings. |
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