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Topic: Where did the tuning C#Minor come from? Was it ever popular? |
George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 14 May 2020 10:37 am |
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Hi folks. When I first took Hawaiian guitar lessons in 1948, along with the A Major and E Major (and E7th) there was another tuning often listed on the TAB or music and that was C#Minor. See the attached page with Mary Lou. As you know, I've stuck mostly with the A Major and A6, E Major and E7 and some C6th.
Where did this C#Minor come from and did it ever become a popular tuning?
This question surely shows my ignorance of tunings in general!!!
Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
Geo
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http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 14 May 2020 10:43 am
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Sol Hoopii used this tuning towards the end of his career. In fact, the guitar I was given of his by Ian Ufton had this tuning on it. I believe Ian kept it the in same tuning as Sol when he finally changed the strings.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 14 May 2020 10:46 am
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That looks to be one of the tunings that was popular back then (and sometimes attributed to Sol Hoopii?). I'm not an expert at all on those tunings but there's plenty of discussion here around those early tunings. Here's a nice and informative thread:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=281635
I think that one is usually called the C#m7 (E-C#-G#-E-D-B) although I'm thinking that D doesn't fit anywhere in a C#m7...C#m7b9? Could also be thought of as an E6 tuning with a b7 (the D), so maybe a kind of E13?
Edit upon seeing above comment...really cool story Mike! Do you still get it out and play it?
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 14 May 2020 11:22 am
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| The copyright date on that arrangement is 1946. The C#m may appear to be an obvious misnomer now, but maybe the 13th chord extension had not been utilized at that point in time. Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone know when Leon McAuliffe started calling his tuning E13? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 14 May 2020 11:28 am
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I tuned one of the necks on my T-8 Stringmaster to a C#m7th tuning.
I put a B in after the C#.
You had kind of an E and an A tuning combined. 
Erv |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 14 May 2020 11:33 am
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| I believe Santo played Sleepwalk in C#m tuning. Probably the highest charting and biggest selling steel guitar instrumental ever. |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 15 May 2020 4:37 am
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| In a "Guitar Player" interview many years ago, Santo said he recorded "Sleepwalk" and "Tear Drop" in C#m7 tuning. |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 15 May 2020 5:11 am
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Sam Koki's "Paradise Isle," composed for the movie of the same name in 1937, has to be one of the most famous C#m steel pieces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmZyWyuEbdM
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Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Tom Snook
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Posted 15 May 2020 5:59 am
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Dick McIntyre?
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I wanna go back to my little grass shack........ |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 15 May 2020 6:03 am
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The tuning in question is E C# G# E D B.
The bottom two strings differ from Sol's old C#min tuning. Some other folks like Dick McIntire modified the tuning to be F#9 by lowering strings 5 and 6 to C# and A#.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 15 May 2020 11:27 am
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Here is an excerpt from Guy Cundell's excellent research from his "Across the Pacific" paper on Hawaiian music:
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4.4.3 C# minor
Another influential tuning that was a product of the second generation of steel guitar players was a modified E tuning known as C# minor. Its invention is widely attributed to Sol Hoopii who used it, possibly for the first time, in his 1934 recording of ‘The Hula Blues’. This was one of the last secular recordings that he made using an acoustic resonating guitar. Subsequently he used the tuning on most of his final electrically amplified recordings. Through these widely distributed recordings, the attributes of the new tuning were amply demonstrated and, subsequently, widely adopted.
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Also this section is of particular note:
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| A distinctive F#9 tuning was used by Charles Opunui in 1932 in recordings made with a Hawaiian trio, the Paradise Islanders in New Jersey. While this was an uncommon tuning, the chronology of its appearance clouds the origins of Hoopii’s 1934 C# minor tuning. The dozen songs recorded in the Paradise Islanders’ 1932 session consisted of simple Hawaiian hula ku’i and himeni songs and more harmonically complex contemporary popular tunes. |
Last edited by Jeremy DeHart on 16 May 2020 3:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 15 May 2020 11:36 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| The tuning in question is E C# G# E D B. |
Yes and when one considers the earlier high bass A tuning, E C# A E C# A it is a simple matter of a few adjustments. No string change necessary. I have read that Sol invented this tuning. This is according Bob Brozman in the liner notes of the two volume So Hoopii CD set on Rounder. He identifies C# minor on a version of Hula Blues which he alternately dates 1934 and 1933--so a typo somewhere. Anyway it's been around since the early '30s at least. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 15 May 2020 1:13 pm
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I believe you need 8 strings when you vary from a straight major tuning otherwise your range is limited.
Erv |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 May 2020 1:23 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| The tuning in question is E C# G# E D B. |
And the question is, where did it come from? And why is it called C#m and not E13?
The second line of tab for the sheet music in the OP includes tunings labeled E and E7. The E7 label obviously takes the bottom two strings into consideration. But the C#m label for the top tab ignores the B and D strings. B-D-E-G#-C#-E includes all the notes in an E13 chord, and I wonder why the tuning is not called that. Not losing sleep over the matter, just curious if anyone knows. |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 15 May 2020 1:32 pm
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I would assume this was due to it being one of the first tunings with a minor triad on top. The C# minor tuning being it’s close relative but more styled after the high bass A with matching triads. This was used for Sol K. Brights version of La Rosita as Mike displays here:
https://youtu.be/vo55s6s9bmU |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 15 May 2020 1:41 pm
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| Another reason it was called C#m and not E6 is because as Guy points out in his paper the 6th was not generally accepted in the Jazz pantheon at that point meaning people didn’t really want to hear that interval. Kind of an archaic concept seeing as we now accept all intervals and so much more. But that is an interesting point Guy makes and he is citing Count Basie. |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 15 May 2020 5:03 pm
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| I have an old steel guitar folio which references what we commonly know as C6, but calls it A minor 7. |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 15 May 2020 6:01 pm
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| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
That looks to be one of the tunings that was popular back then (and sometimes attributed to Sol Hoopii?). I'm not an expert at all on those tunings but there's plenty of discussion here around those early tunings. Here's a nice and informative thread:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=281635 |
That was worth a revisit. I'd almost forgotten my contributions to that thread (and the thread with the thread). Inception! 
The Brozman citation is obviously my go to, but looking back I'm reminded that Mike Neer disputed the Hula Blues tuning as his C# minor. I have no reason to doubt him. It still puts Hoopii's first recorded version in 1935. |
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