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Topic: Tone Block 202 vs N400? |
Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 23 Apr 2020 12:02 pm |
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Thoughts, just looking at overall sound not special speakers or cabinets etc.
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Morton Kellas
From:
Chazy, NY, USA 1
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Posted 25 Apr 2020 2:34 pm Quilter 202 Tone Block
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Larry, as you know, the Nashville 400 has been used by so many players and it does sound good when adjusted properly.
I have a 202 and a Nashville and use the Quilter more and have had several compliments on my tone. Not to say in any way that the Nashville falls short. I find it very easy to get a good sound very quickly with the EQ on the 202. Travis Toy would be a much better source than I am on this subject. I have used the 202 with different speakers and with slight adjustments, I can always get the tone I am looking for very quickly. I do think that the Nashville has a bit more presence or up front punch. I have used the 202 in outdoor venues with excellent results. I feel that the tone is very acceptable and the reduced weight for my old back is a bonus. If I was closer, I would let you take mine to try. Sweetwater's has a great return policy if you ever you thought you would like to try one. Best wishes. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 25 Apr 2020 6:14 pm
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| One big advantage of the N-400 is the mid-shift control; it really helps to tailor the sound of a pedal steel. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 26 Apr 2020 1:52 am
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| I had a 202. Enough to say "I had". |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2020 8:48 am
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I had a NV400 and several other Peaveys. They're great amps, but they're gone. I now have a 202, among others. There are a couple of things to understand about the 202, probably because it's settings do not function exactly like amps, like Peavey, that a lot of players are used to. I don't buy an amp, plug in, turn it on, set the twisty thingys the way I do other amps' twisty thingys, say, "Nope", and send it packing. I'm not like that. If it's worth the investment, it's worth the time it takes to see if it works for me. I was fortunate to have heard several very well known steelers play through a 202 in different environments before I bought mine, so I knew what it could do. I had to play with it. I also read a little and listened a lot. Now that I have a better understanding of how some of the 202's functions interface, I find it easier to dial in tone I like with the 202 than with Peavey's mid/shift functions. Then again, I didn't have to play with it any more than I played with the settings on several Peaveys. Of course, we're talking about tone here...
Last edited by Jim Cooley on 26 Apr 2020 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 26 Apr 2020 8:53 am
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| I tried Travis Toy's suggested settings and couldn't find one that I was happy with. Tried the 202 with several speakers including the stock Quilter speaker, Telonics 12 and another neo 12. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 26 Apr 2020 11:40 am
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Good responses from Morton and Jim. I hope you can get some more "compare and contrast" responses from those who have used both.
Such things are so subjective. We all hear the world through different ears. Some people can get a great sound through an amp that wasn't designed for steel guitars. Others can have problems dialing in a good sound with an amp that was designed for steel guitar. I had a Nashville 112 for several days and never did find the sound my ears were looking for. (I played through a Nashville 400 for many years and loved it.) I have run across a few folks that couldn't get a sound they wanted to hear out of their Evans amplifiers. Usually it was simply a matter of them learning how the quirky tone controls interact with each other.
I look forward to reading some more informative comparisons and opinions based on some more pairs of ears. |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2020 1:41 pm
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| For me, understanding the relationships between the 202's Gain, Master, and Limiter functions is key. These three work hand in hand. I generally think of adding Gain as adding overdrive or dirt. The 202's Gain stays clean at much higher levels than other amps. I've seen a couple of steelers play with the Gain way over half way up, and still sounding clean. There is a sweet spot, but like other equipment, there is no one size fits all. That's why many manufacturers produce many pieces of equipment. |
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Morton Kellas
From:
Chazy, NY, USA 1
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Posted 26 Apr 2020 3:14 pm Quilter 202 Tone Block
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| Well spoken Jim, I agree with the control relationship between the Gain, Master and Limiter, it really makes an audible difference how these are set. After a very short learning curve, I personally had no problem adjusting my 202 to get a very full, rich sound. As mentioned, the controls do not adjust like a Nashville, which is a fine amplifier and it won't sound like a Nashville, because it is not. I find the tone I am getting out of my 202 very pleasing and along with the light weight and it being very compact, I have no intention of letting it go. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 26 Apr 2020 4:11 pm
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I had a Nashville 400 for 15 years, then Evans SE 150 which I love but haven’t used for some time. I’m ok with a 12†speaker and my 202, which I use almost exclusively now except for my Quilter Aviator 8. It handles everything from 50s Honkytonk, to blues and Bro Country. I’m through lugging heavy gear around for some difference in sound only a dog can hear.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Ron Shalita
From:
California, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2020 6:49 pm
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I personally LOVE my 67 Fender Deluxe Reverb tone to die for and simple to set up... plug and play!
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Been playing all of my life, Lead Guitar, and Pedal Steel, sing Lead and Harmony.. play other Instruments also but I hate to admit to it.. |
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Travis Toy
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2020 8:34 pm
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| Jim Cooley wrote: |
| For me, understanding the relationships between the 202's Gain, Master, and Limiter functions is key. These three work hand in hand. I generally think of adding Gain as adding overdrive or dirt. The 202's Gain stays clean at much higher levels than other amps. I've seen a couple of steelers play with the Gain way over half way up, and still sounding clean. There is a sweet spot, but like other equipment, there is no one size fits all. That's why many manufacturers produce many pieces of equipment. |
You’re a wise man.
-t
_________________
www.travistoy.com
www.travistoytutorials.com |
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Ron Shalita
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 2:42 am
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Thanks... it took a lot of years to get this way and a LOT of amps and instruments .. what people should ask themselves is.... really what is an amp and what does it do? then buy one and stick with it... as you know tone in in your hands, the amp is merely a monitor ...
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Been playing all of my life, Lead Guitar, and Pedal Steel, sing Lead and Harmony.. play other Instruments also but I hate to admit to it.. |
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Henry Brooks
From:
Los Gatos, California, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 10:10 am
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This is a little off topic but does the limiter really control a peak limiter, like the Nashvilles have, or is it just a label they put on some sort of EQ?
Henry |
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Travis Toy
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 10:47 am
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| Henry Brooks wrote: |
This is a little off topic but does the limiter really control a peak limiter, like the Nashvilles have, or is it just a label they put on some sort of EQ?
Henry |
Henry, it is a peak limiter, and quite a bit better than what's in a 400, even if only due to the fact that it's adjustable. It allows you to run a higher gain setting, but limit the peaks that are pushing the preamp stage into overdrive. The gain on the 202 is very much like the gain knob on a tube amp. The beauty is having the adjustable limiter so you can decide how much overdrive you want to allow, no matter the gain setting. You'll get different tonal qualities throughout the range of the gain knob, but by using the limiter, you can decide if you want the overdrive that classically accompanies a higher gain setting. It is VERY useful to get an amazing range of sounds.
On the general topic of the 202...there's a reason that I paired it with the speaker and cabinet that I did for my signature combo with Quilter. Those three components definitely have a "thing" and they compliment each other better than anything I could find. Jack Stoner has made it very clear that he didn't care for it, which is fine, but I'm not sure he ever tried those three components together at the same time. The cabinet especially, is a huge part of the sound of that TT combo.
On the topic of settings...I don't really recall ever sharing "my settings", because in reality, those don't exist. If I did, they would have probably been accompanied by the disclaimer that they are very subject to change, based on the countless individual factors that come into play. Anyone who sets an amp exactly the same, no matter where they are, or what music they're playing, is missing the point of having the controls. I make pretty large changes depending on the situation.
We can't let ourselves be victims of needing to know how someone else sets an amp. It really couldn't matter any less. You are you. You need to use your own ears and hands to find what works for YOU. Don't be afraid to turn knobs and see what they do at both extremes. You're not gonna break anything. That's the first thing I do when I encounter a new piece of gear. I immediately arm myself with the knowledge of what the full range of every knob/setting does, and then start listening. I encourage everyone to do the same. Over time, you will gain the confidence to find your sound with anything, because it all starts with you.
-t
_________________
www.travistoy.com
www.travistoytutorials.com |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 2:39 pm
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| Travis Toy wrote: |
On the topic of settings...I don't really recall ever sharing "my settings", because in reality, those don't exist. If I did, they would have probably been accompanied by the disclaimer that they are very subject to change, based on the countless individual factors that come into play. Anyone who sets an amp exactly the same, no matter where they are, or what music they're playing, is missing the point of having the controls. I make pretty large changes depending on the situation.
We can't let ourselves be victims of needing to know how someone else sets an amp. It really couldn't matter any less. You are you. You need to use your own ears and hands to find what works for YOU. Don't be afraid to turn knobs and see what they do at both extremes. You're not gonna break anything. That's the first thing I do when I encounter a new piece of gear. I immediately arm myself with the knowledge of what the full range of every knob/setting does, and then start listening. I encourage everyone to do the same. Over time, you will gain the confidence to find your sound with anything, because it all starts with you.
-t |
You're a wise man
-j |
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Henry Brooks
From:
Los Gatos, California, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2020 3:51 pm
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Thanks Travis. I wasn't quite sure if it was a true limiter.
Henry |
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Rick Johnson
From:
Wheelwright, Ky USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2020 6:03 am
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I bought the 202 to use as a rehearsal amp
and backup amp.
Like everyone else I own Steel King, Twin Reverbs, NV400
Session 500, Session 400, Little Walter...and more
It didn't take long to get a great sound out
of the 202.
Because of the pandemic I haven't got to use it
yet with the band. I have no doubts it can hang.
RJ
www.rickjohnsoncabinets.com |
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Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2020 8:30 am
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Rick,
I can build you a cabinet if you're in need. 
steve |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 30 Apr 2020 7:21 pm
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Well I pulled the trigger and ordered one from Sweetwater. The wife is tired of packing my N400 around, I need to think about her more. (Hee Hee)
I will give it a shot, I can always return it, but I need to try it with my speakers, my steel etc. Stand by.
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2020 8:30 pm
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Larry,
Call me any time.
-j |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 2 May 2020 2:50 pm
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The little toggle on the left of the unit- what setting, which direction?
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 2 May 2020 3:50 pm
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Travis Toy usually likes the Vintage setting, all the way to the right. Controls are passive like a Fender amp. The Middle position makes the tone controls active. Not sure about the third setting but I think it’s more suited for pedals or rack gear sent through the effects loop.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 3 May 2020 9:49 am
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| Larry Behm wrote: |
| The little toggle on the left of the unit- what setting, which direction? |
The VINT setting is pretty Fendery. The FULLQ is Steelaireish. The FRFR is more for cab sims. |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 10 May 2020 2:54 pm
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Ok it came I plugged it in. Twisted the knobs for an hour, AB with my N400 twisted some more. Plugged in my volume pedal things changed a little, plugged in my effects unit things changed a little again. More AB. Emmons PP, Hilton, 409 Pups, BW 1501 DT speaker.
Then I took my own advice for years, “turn all eq knobs to full and take out what you do not likeâ€. THERE is was, I say THERE it was. Dropped the T back to 3:00. Toggle switch to the right, master on full for the full wattage. I turned on the reverb in my Zoom MS50G to Plate and turned on the OptiComp compressor for a little more body and sustain.
If my N400 was a ten this might come in at 9-9.23. I like the clean string separation a lot, BUT you better block block block or you will hear every misQ.
That being said, 3lbs vs .....30lbs for my head in a box.
More update today:
It is a little sterile sounding if you are use to a Webb or a Session 400 but there are lot of control options.
You can turn the “power†knob from like full on to say just 1/2 on to change wattage thus changing characteristics of attack etc.
The same with the toggle switch, say far right to middle as example.
Depending on the club, the band, the song, etc you have lots of variables. Then if you add in your favorite effects unit.......
Did I mention string separation?ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
If you like the sound of a twin (no mids) you can get it.
If you like a warmer sound more full sound it is there.
If you like the N400 sound I got close enough at this time.
Now we all just need to get back to work💃ðŸ¼ðŸ’ƒðŸ¼ðŸ’ƒðŸ¼
I got this from Sweetwater so I could send it back, I am going to keep it.
Feel free to call me.
971-219-8533
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533
Last edited by Larry Behm on 12 May 2020 9:47 am; edited 3 times in total |
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