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Topic: Pedal steel guitars of the '50's |
Tim Jones of Kansas
From:
Andover, KS, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2006 11:42 pm |
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It's me again.
I recently purchased some videos, 5 to be exact, of old 50's Opry stars. The videos are taken from episodes of TV shows at the time. Several of the famous players are highlighted such as Jimmy Day, Don Helms and even Mr. Emmons. One thing I noticed was that if the steel guitarist wasn't playing a 2, 3, or 4 neck Bigsby pedal steel guitar, they were of course playing the non-pedal models of the time. Some of these players though are using pedal changes. One individual had a quad stringmaster and the second neck was rigged with pedals. This seemed to be a trend. It was more than likely cheaper to modify your current steel, which was probably half a life savings to begin with, than wait for a custom built pedal steel. I am interested in your thoughts on the subject of non-pedals converted to pedals of some form. Would these have any value today? Do you own one or have played one? Just general thoughts.
Thanx
Tim Jones )~Fender 1000 and NOTHING else~( [This message was edited by Tim Jones on 15 March 2006 at 11:45 PM.] |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 16 Mar 2006 12:15 am
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| The fellow playing that quad Stringmaster w/ pedals is Jack Evins. He played that guitar on many Ray Price recordings. Bobby Garrett also had a similar rig before he got his Sho Bud. I believe our own Rick Garrett has his dad's guitar now. Probably the main reason why people then converted their non pedal guitars is the fact that Bigsby and Wright Custom were the only pedal guitars worth anything. And at least Bigsby had a two year waiting period if you ordered one. Then of course, things changed when Fender and Sho Bud stepped in with their pedal steel models. |
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 16 Mar 2006 1:25 am
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I've seen many of the 1950s Ganaway Opry films on TV, but have never seen any country players use a Multi-Kord PSG. I believe the Multi-Kord's changer was the first universal type changer. ie. any pedal could raise or lower any string or number of strings. The lowering return springs were very stiff though and were located under the raise levers too. I believe the pedal pressure left something to be desired.
ROGER
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 16 Mar 2006 10:25 am
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Interesting Post!
What has been almost forgotten is that Gibson built a 8 string 6 pedal Electra-Harp in 1942 with a Multi-Kord type changer and it was Played by Alvino Rey, Paul Martin, on the west coast,And a few others.
It was a solid birdseye maple cabinet all the way to the floor and very stable. A picture of it in an ADV is on my Website.
T. McCarty pres. of Gibson told me they made only about 12 of them before WWII, then that model was disconinued after the war.
I was lucky enough to get one used after my discharge from the Army in 1945. I played it for almost 20 Years.
They played full chords and modern big band style, like the C6 playing of today....al 
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Mar 2006 1:56 pm
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| Quote: |
| I am interested in your thoughts on the subject of non-pedals converted to pedals of some form. Would these have any value today? |
Probably much less than an unmodified guitar. Most of these conversions were pretty crude, with no thought to maintaining the value of the original instrument, and no one ever thought that Stringmasters would some day command thousands of dollars. Probably hundreds of these conversions were done to Fenders, and about any other steel, as well. They're more conversation pieces than they are valuable instruments. |
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Rick Garrett
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 16 Mar 2006 2:09 pm
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My Dad's Fender Stringmaster had the one pedal modification done on it by Shot Jackson. Shot signed the date that he did the mod under the machine pan. To me that makes it more valuable because ol Shot did the work. Didn't hurt the overall value of my Stringmaster either because it was part of the Jim Reeves estate. All it would take to put it back completely original is the replacement of that one tuning pan but I wouldn't touch it if you paid me twice what I gave for it. I wouldn't have it re-finished either and I like all of those bar dings between the necks that my dad put on it.
You think Stringmasters are high priced? You should have seen what this one was valued at on the Reeves estate inventory list. I did not pay that price. Not even close and I won't say what I did pay for it so don't ask BUT, you could buy TWO brand new MSA Milleneums loaded to the gills and still not reach the value that the JR estate had on this guitar. So in this particular case, the alteration didn't hurt the value at all.
Rick[This message was edited by Rick Garrett on 16 March 2006 at 03:28 PM.] |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2006 5:24 am
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| i read somewhere that lloyd green had his dad add a pedal or pedals to his guitar using model t parts. maybe i read it on the tom bradshaw compilation record. this is a very interesting subject to me. keep the stories coming guys. |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2006 6:03 am
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on the Bear Family Town Hall Party DVDs
Billy Mize is seen playing a pedal steel.
I cant make out the name plate tho.
this steel looks slimmer than others Ive seen. it also has more than six pedals.
I dont thoink it is a Bigsby; although on a laterTex Ritter Ranch Parrty DVD Ive seen Marion Hall behind a Bigsby.
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Neil Harms
From:
Ionia, Missouri, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2006 8:23 am
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I have a 52 Fender Custom triple-neck that has a pedal added to the front neck. It give the I to IV chord move when tuned to E9. Works pretty slick. I wouldn't put it back "stock" for anything. For me, it's worth way more like it is. I was born in 1968 but I can imagine what it must have been like hearing "Slowly" and wondering "how did he do that"?.... Then getting this baby back with that fancy pedal under it.... It must've been like having your birthday all year long! It's a keeper for me. N.
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76 Sho-Bud LDG, 52 Fender Custom Triple, Fender Vibrasonic "Custom", (plus all that other stuff....) |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2006 9:23 am
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I've had a number of vintage Fenders go through my little steel store, and quite a few of them have evidence of "pedal mods". Ranging from just a hole or two drileld throught he tuning pan to some pretty awful chop jobs. It's obvious that hearing Issacs or one of the other early pedal players made that a "must have" for a lot of players. Interestingly, I've seen far fewer such mods to stringmasters than to Dual Pros and Customs.
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 17 Mar 2006 9:56 am
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| The guitar Billy Mize is playing on those THP DVD's is a Fender 1000. |
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Rick Jolley
From:
Colorado Springs
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Posted 17 Mar 2006 10:22 am
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When I played with Bud Isaacs in Phoenix in the Fall of 1958, he was playing a Gibson -- he called it a "multi-chord" and said that he helped design it."
He was wonderful -- I was trying to learn to play Atkins/Travis and he played "The Bells of St. Mary" and just shut me down!!
I'm sure he doesn't remember me, but I sure remember him!
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Rick Jolley
(Rick Zahniser/Rickey Zahn)
Dekley S10 3/3, Session400LTD
http://belizenorth.com
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2006 6:07 am
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| a month or so ago that guitar or someone claiming it to be bud isaacs gibson was for sale on ebay. i didn't believe it cause i thought he played bigsbys in the 50's. |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 25 Nov 2006 10:06 am
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Very cool Gary.
Thanks,
Russ |
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Papa Joe Pollick
From:
Swanton, Ohio
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Posted 25 Nov 2006 10:52 am
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| Hey Russ,can I borrow your drill? LOL |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 25 Nov 2006 11:03 am
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One of my old friends from the SoCal days (Tommy Brooks) played a triple neck Gibson steel while he worked in LA. Tommy's guitar had three 8 string necks and had 6 pedals on the middle neck if I remember correctly. He played just about anything he wanted to on the thing. I remember when Marty Robbin's "The Shoe Goes On the Other Foot Tonight" came out. Tommy was working with Amil Presson's band at the time. If you remember that song, it had a great steel ride. Tommy could nail it on that Gibson. He later moved to St. Louis to work for the Chrysler corp. and didn't play full time anymore but he's still pickin' and has a lot of chops. The last time I saw him at Scotty's I believe he told me that the old Gibson had been stolen. Tommy's a nice dude and a very underrated picker to some but not to me, I knew him when he was doing it full time and was a real pro if there ever was one, and on a Gibson..............JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 25 Nov 2006 11:19 am
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Papa Joe get that drill going!
Russ |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 25 Nov 2006 1:31 pm
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Speaking of the Gibson Electraharp, I just picked up a 1949 EH-630 Electraharp - 8 strings, 4 pedals. The pedals basically work OK - they're cable-operated. Of course, the pedal action is nothing like a modern steel. This is the later version, and I believe the changer is different than on the Multi-Kord. I imagine this would have been one of the few non-mod pedal steels available in the early 50s. Beautiful curly maple cabinet and neck, and one of the early P-90 pickups without adjustable pole pieces.
This guitar has a big, rich sound. It definitely has the Alvino Rey vibe with an E6 or E13 tuning on it. Pretty good Don Helms sort of vibe also, sans pedals. For now, I'm gonna use it as a non-pedal steel. |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2006 1:58 pm
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In the summer of 1954 Shot came north to Boston with the Kitty Wells/ Johnny & Jack show. "Slowly" had exploded and Web Pierce had done a few other songs featuring pedals. I had an old style Standup D8 Fender that I had put a homade E to A pedal on the bridge end. Shot had an older stand up Fender with the E to A pedal and told me that he had done the newer Web songs pedal work. His pedals were on the tuner end, all holes and levers drilled thru the tuning heads. He said he had been given a a new long scale Fender Stringmaster D8 by Fender that he couldn't use because his A tuning was breaking strings and he would put 3 pedals on for $350.00 so I bought it and was shipped to me in few weeks.Had the E to A , E to Eb on the E neck and C 6th to 7th pedal on the C6 neck. Worked pretty good!! I later jury rigged the split E to A pedals and used this guitar for quite a while. Shot said he was working on a "pedal" steel and was winding pickups a better way, all the windings evenly across the pickup, not criss-cross as they had been. Was a cleaner electro-magnetic field , he said. I guess it worked as the early Sho-Buds did have a much better tone,& sound. I'm sure he did that pedal rig on a lot of stand up Fenders in 1954 & 55. The Rickenbacher catalog about that time also advertised that you could buy their steel consoles and have custom pedals installed in Nashville for $100.00 or $125.00 each. I finally tore up that guitar and gave away all the parts! A friend of mine , Charlie Holbrook, a master machinist and wood worker had made me a couple single neck guitars with pedals that I used till I bought a Fender 1000 from Tom Bradshaw in the 70s and have been using that since. I wish I had saved my old Shot built Fender Stringmaster pedal guitar but this old Geezer never was too smart !! If I had saved everything I used to own I'd be rich today !!!
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 26 Nov 2006 11:48 am
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| great story eddie. $350 was more than a month's pay back in '54, about $2400 in today's dollars. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 26 Nov 2006 7:12 pm
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Gary-Translating to today's dollars makes you think. In 1946 I paid $550. for my used Pre WWII Gibson 6 pedal 8 string Electra-harp. That price would get you a BRAND New Chevy. So in todays dollars that would be about $18,000.
It retailed in 1942 for $450. Wholesaled for $225.00. But I had to have it.
Alvino Rey, and Paul Martin on the west coast had one and were playing some very nice chord style melody. So that was the direction I wanted to go in.
Those were very stable pedal steels and workd very good, Beautiful wood,but heavy on a big cabinet, no case, of course. I could get every chord in the book on it.
It did have a Multi-Kord type changer head. I don't know who had the Patent. They had a disagreement on that.
Gibson Pres:T.MCarty said only about 15 were made. So they were available in 1942, but I couldnt afford it then.
They stopped building them during the War and never built them again. Later they came out with the new model with the wires coming out of the left leg, I didn't like that one, so kept my Used 1942 model for several years.
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 26 November 2006 at 07:23 PM.] |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 26 Nov 2006 8:11 pm
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| wow! one of those was on ebay about a year ago with a start price of $1000 and it ended without a bid. i thought it would go through the roof. [This message was edited by Gary Spaeth on 26 November 2006 at 08:11 PM.] |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Al Udeen
From:
maple grove mn usa
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Posted 1 Dec 2006 4:44 pm
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| Gary! In 58 I went to Souix City Iowa to see a show with Ray Price & Ernest Tubb, Emmons was with ET & instead of Jimmy Day, Jack Evans was with Price, Jack had a Sho-Bud & he was very friendly to me when we compared notes about the early Sho-Buds, as I had got my #3 in 57, I remember him telling me that he played on Prices, "Invitation to the Blues" Take Care! Al Udeen |
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