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Topic: New old '54 National Grand Console |
Walter Webb
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2020 2:00 pm |
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Any National geeks out there, with any comments about this instrument? Call me a lunatic! I got a 1954 (ser#355xx) National Grand Console with 3 necks... not exactly a common thing to find. 23" scale. 3/8" string spacing.
Got all it's parts, except for one black plastic threaded knob that holds the tuner cover bail from underneath.
Need advice on the disintegrated tuner knobs. I know Stew Mac sells them in several colors, that can be pressed onto the melty-hot shafts. I like the black and blonde color scheme. Maybe I'd rather replace all the tuners, complete. Any recommendations on complete tuners (24 singles, not on a plate) that would fit? Not labeled, but they look like Klusons.
What to do about the lacquer/paint that is cracking up? Probably should replace the amphenol connector with a 1/4" switchcraft socket.
Thanks for looking, and any remarks.
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Larry Carlson
From:
My Computer
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Posted 17 Mar 2020 3:00 pm
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The checking in the finish would be considered "character".
It's an older guitar and has lived a life.
That includes dents, scratches and a deteriorating finish.
Some players, me included, prefer an original finish, warts and all.
As for the amphenol connector I would not change it out. Just one more thing that would remove it's original value.
Disintegrated tuner buttons are mostly a given on an older guitar.
I have a 1939 Rick Silver Hawaiian that had no buttons left.
I bought replacement buttons designed to emulate the originals from Stew-Mac.
If it was my guitar, and I wish it was, I would clean it up, check all the electronics, replace the buttons,
search around for that plastic knob and keep it original as possible.
With my '44 Electromuse that is all I did; get the tone and volume controls working and put on new buttons and replicate the broken nut.
It looks like it does because it's lived a life and has character. It's an ugly, inexpensive little bugger and I love it.
Please keep in mind that all of this is just my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.
Either way, it's your guitar. Do with it what pleases you and play the heck out of it.
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2020 3:10 pm Re: New old '54 National Grand Console
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| Walter Webb wrote: |
| Any recommendations on complete tuners (24 singles, not on a plate) that would fit? Not labeled, but they look like Klusons. |
They will be a tad spendy, but four sets of Gotoh SD-90 3x3 Vintage White Button Nickel Tuners such as these should do the trick. TK-0977-001 should be the correct model number. They're far superior to the original Kluson Deluxes, in my opinion.
That's a beautiful National triple. Great find! Congrats. If it were mine, I would be tempted to flush, lube, and re-button the original Klusons. Especially in these coming days of self-quarantined cocooning.
One of these Switchcraft 332A adapters would also come in handy:
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Walter Webb
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2020 4:59 pm
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This is the worst paint area, where it's completely gone.
Still, better to keep it original, I think, than to try and do a patch job that ends up looking odd. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2020 5:16 pm
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Stew-Mac sells replacement tuner buttons... you just chew them off with a set of dykes/nippers, then melt or glue the new buttons on, depending on the button you get.
If you don't know who Stew-Mac is, climb up out of that hole! One of the best places on the planet for guitar and luthier stuff.
https://www.stewmac.com/
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Walter Webb
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2020 6:33 pm Re: New old '54 National Grand Console
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The screw holes are identically spaced, the string post the same at 6.35mm=1/4". The hole in the string post is drilled about 3/16" further out, which puts it more into the middle of the routed wood channel. Would I need to use the press-in bushings? That could be a luthier operation, to drill the hole out to 11/32" on the inside, and press the bushing in with no room to drive it...
They will be a tad spendy, but four sets of Gotoh SD-90 3x3 Vintage White Button Nickel Tuners such as these should do the trick. TK-0977-001 should be the correct model number. They're far superior to the original Kluson Deluxes, in my opinion.
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Walter Webb
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2020 6:38 pm
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[quote="Stephen Cowell"]Stew-Mac sells replacement tuner buttons... you just chew them off with a set of dykes/nippers, then melt or glue the new buttons on, depending on the button you get.
In my case, no chewing, nor nippers required. They just crumble into dust between a thumb and finger! I took a couple of tuners off, oiled them heavily, and get the feeling they are funky as they bind/tighten up at certain degrees of rotation. I'm thinking a set of 24 Gotoh SD-90s would be a good upgrade for only about $150, and are covered up by the long cover plates. |
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Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
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Posted 17 Mar 2020 9:23 pm bad tuners are bad!
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I hate having to tune with crummy tuners.
Buy one a set & see if they fit right. If they do, then replace them all. I always find new Gotohs to be a quality of live improvement!
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2020 7:20 am
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| Replacing the tuner buttons is not a hard job. Remove the tuner assembly. Crush and remove the old ones. Heat each tuner shaft individually and press on the replacement tuner. Lube the assembly and replace. Be assured, all the screws, holes, and bushings will fit when you put it back together. Buy a few extra buttons when you order, as you're bound to screw up a few of them. Ive done it on four different National / Supro guitars and it gets easier each time. Have also replaced white guitar buttons with black buttons, same method. |
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Walter Webb
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2020 11:25 am A score on the tuners!
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Aaaand, suddenly there appeared sets of Gotoh SD-90 # TK-0977-001 tuners on eBay, for the probably the best price you'll ever see... It's got the white buttons, just like National put on... 4 sets of six...
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Walter Webb
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2020 3:33 pm Electronics
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Mike Christensen
From:
Cook Minnesota
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Posted 18 Mar 2020 5:04 pm national
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| What a cool guitar. For my 2 cents I would say you have been given great advice. I would not try to paint that spot. Patina. Happy Trails. |
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Walter Webb
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2020 8:55 am Clamping knob for bail that secures plastic tuner cover
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It's good to know that certain hardware items made decades ago, are still available if you look in the right places. I just discovered that the tuner cover bail clamp knob (located underneath) is readily available, female threaded, 8-32, at any well-stocked hardware store. It's "form A," totally identical to the original in every way.
https://catalog.monroeengineering.com/item/instrument-knobs/miniature-clamping-knobs/ma-0208 |
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Walter Webb
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2020 8:57 am Re: national
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Speaking of Happy Trails... what a great song for steel! Anybody got a cool arrangement?
| Mike Christensen wrote: |
| What a cool guitar. For my 2 cents I would say you have been given great advice. I would not try to paint that spot. Patina. Happy Trails. |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2020 8:35 pm
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I have one just like that. The positions markers are flaking off from the bottom of the plastic fretboards
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Walter Webb
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2020 11:16 pm Tuners
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New tuning machines going in. They fit perfectly. Ordered SIT strings. Gonna have neck #1 be C6 with E (the third) on top, #2 A6 with E (the fifth) on top. Not sure yet about #3. B11 or Don Helms E13.
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