Another Tonemaster thread

Joseph Napolitano · From: New Jersey, USA

Ok. I'm an admitted tube junkie. I have never played a solid state amp that didn't disappoint me in the tone department.I have a 72 Deluxe Reverb, 68 drip-edge Pro Reverb, and a 79 twin with the ultralinear tranny ,as my gigging amps, all Silverfaces. I have the twin in Rick Johnson split cabinets. For me, perfect steel tone, all of them.
A terrific guitar player in one of my bands recently got a Tonemaster Twin, and he sounds great with it.
So I bought one at a store with a 30 day return policy.
Used it at home for a couple weeks. Then took it to a gig.Used a freeloader ,Goodrich, carbon copy, amp.
The tone was ok, but not great, a bit of a struggle all night. The single notes died out quickly, didn't sustain anywhere near as nicely as with the tube amps. A bit sterile.Twisted the tone knobs all night long. Couldn't dial it in. Overall, it was a bit dead sounding.
I so wanted to like this 33lb. amp, but the sound was nothing like a tube amp to me, uninspiring. After much thought,I returned it , and was relieved.
I know it's 33lbs, it looks like a twin, and the dials are reminiscent of the twin experience. But imho it doesn't sound like a twin, and absolutely does not sound like a tube amp.Congrats to the folks that love their Tonemasters,I mean no disrespect. But I would never have been happy with the sound of this amp. My Silverfaces have never disappointed me in the tone dept. like the Tonemaster did.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

As someone who kept his Tone Master twin, no disrespect taken: amps are very subjective. I had to gig a couple of times with mine and swap out a speaker to decide to keep it. For me, the neo Jensens are the weak link, tone-wise. Replacing one got it into the tube-twin zone for me. Two ceramic 12" speakers, or the right ceramic 15" would probably get it even deeper into that zone, but, alas, the weight and expense start to cut into the amp's advantages after a while.

To me the biggest limitation of the amp is its fixed tone. On my 71 Twin and my reissue Deluxe, preamp tubes can make a big difference and allow some flexibility to pair with speaker selection. I have found that to be a critical component for dialing in the tone of of every tube-twin I have owned. The digital Tone Master doesn't allow for any of that. If the tone is not right where you want it--it is what it is.

I would add that any tube-twin (original blackface, early silverface, master volume silverface, ultralinear, etc.) will sound different from another tube-twin. I have had a couple that I couldn't get to sound close enough to my '71 to warrant keeping them. Again, tone is a very subjective thing. Whether the Tone Master Twin cuts it for me will be a different equation than for anyone else. That's what makes the world go 'round (and keeps the used gear market humming!)

Joseph Napolitano · From: New Jersey, USA

Dan thanks for your interesting and insightful comments.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I have a TM Twin. When I first got it I didn't exactly like the tone but after I got the EQ dialed in its a "keeper".

My tone settings are Bass 6, Mid 10, Treble 4, Bright Switch OFF. I use a POD XT for effects. My setup is Franklin D-10 with Lawrence 710 pickups to a Hilton VP to the POD X3 (effects such as reverb and delay - no amp modeling) and direct to the amp.

Our lead guitar player is "must have Fender tube amp" type and uses a Blackface Pro Reverb (also has two Blackface Twins) and a Fender Strat Plus guitar. Did some comparisons with his Strat Plus and couldn't hear enough difference to matter. He's so impressed with the Tone Master Twin that he is seriously considering getting one. He says my steel has never sounded better and I've used Peavey, Carvin and even went through the new Quilter steel amps (Steelaire and Travis Toy 12) and the Tone Master, for me, is the best.

Dean Holman · From: Branson MO

I guess to each his own, Iâ€™m not sure what guys are or arenâ€™t hearing. I know all amps donâ€™t sound the same, but Iâ€™ve A and Bâ€™d a tone master with a tube twin, and after tweaking the tone master, I couldnâ€™t tell 2 cents worth of difference. I felt like the tone master had plenty of sustain and volume and had the closest to a tube sound without being tube. Plus, only being 33 pounds and all the features on that amp, I think itâ€™s a great amp. Iâ€™ll have to admit, Iâ€™m not a speaker buff. Would a different speaker work better in that amp? Thatâ€™s subjective, but I found no problem with the Jensen speakers and I have enough faith in Fender that if they felt there was a better speaker, they would be using it instead of the Jensen. I have a Fender Steel King and I would choose the tone master over it. The Steel King has a harsher sound than the tone master. Iâ€™ve seen some guys talk about making a tone master head. If I was going to just get a head, I would just get a twin tube head, I would just get the real deal and whatever speaker cabinets you wanted. But to me, I like the idea of just having one amp at 33 pounds to carry around. I guess if speakers are the only or main issue, I would get one of those amps and just replace the speakers. I wouldnâ€™t judge an amp by something thatâ€™s an easy fix.

Chris Grigsby · From: Boulder, CO

I demoed one with 6 string guitar the other day and felt like there was a palpable latency—presumably due to the AD/DA conversion required for the modeling—that caused me to pass.
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Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet.

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

You guys that are having issues are you using the mids or cutting them like what has to be done on every Peavey made? I treat my Tonemaster like a tube Twin and set the mids on 8,Treble on 4, Bass on 5-6, Verb on 3, Volume on 4-5 and turn the bright switch on or off depending on the room. If you are cutting the mids you will chase the tone all night.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The mids on a Peavey (Paramid EQ) is an active and different EQ system than the "simple" tone controls on a Fender.

I like the old school Bass/Mid/Treble controls on my TM Twin.

Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

A guitar player friend let me try his Deluxe Reverb Tone Master last night before the gig. It had plenty of power and I probably could have found a tone I liked if I'd had more time to experiment. I couldn't find a setting that gave me the "fullness"(not bass) that I get with my NV-112. One thing about this particular amp that was finicky was the reverb. At 2, it wasn't near enough and at 2 and 1/2, it was too much. Never seen one that sensitive. Do you owners see that with yours?
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro

Dave Campbell · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

yes, the reverb is not useable for me, and it is kind of a bummer. if there was anything that i could realistically hope for a firmware update in this amp, it is a better reverb. it's strange, because i find that fender has done some good modelling on spring reverbs, but the dwell on the tonemaster version is far too long.

Rick Heins · From: Phoenix, AZ

Joseph Napolitano · From: New Jersey, USA

Dean Holman · From: Branson MO

I’ll admit, I haven’t messed with the tone master much. In fact, I haven’t even played my own guitars through one. I’ve been playing through the same amps since 1990. It’s clear that I’m not a gear guru. My friend who is a pro guitar player, in fact, was the staff guitar player for the International Steel Guitar Convention, who was for many years a Mesa Boogie junkie and a Hot Rod Deluxe, found favor in the Tonemaster after comparing it to a tube twin. The music store we were at, carries a lot of instruments and amps and equipment that most music stores don’t carry. They happened to have a little student model GFI guitar and a Goodrich VP, and sounded great through that amp. I’m almost 50 years old and not in the best of health, so for me, weight is an issue. Tone is subjective and it really don’t matter, we’re going to sound what we sound like regardless of what we play through. The answer to your question, some people are just as happy playing through solid state or digital as opposed to playing tube. I guess I’m basing my opinion on the tone master compared to solid state amps as opposed to tube. If the playing field of a tone master and a tube twin were even with all the features and the weight, of course I would go with the tube twin, but then there would be no need for a tone master if that were the case. I felt that the tone master sounded enough like tube, that for a modeling amp, it made it an excellent option. But the fact still remains, tube is tube and solid state is solid state and no one is ever going to build a solid state to completely sound or react like a tube. There’s always a trade off, it’s always about what you can live with and live without.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

There are those that "must have" Fender Tube amp and the rest of us that don't give a S..t, just want what tone they want to hear.

As previously mentioned a particular amp isn't for everyone and those that don't like it there are many other brands/models of amps.

The TM Twin is for me and I hear almost the same sound I had with a AB768 silver faced Twin.

I've got some modeling effect units and I don't hear any particular amp or effect with them. I had a "Black Box" preamp and hated the tube sound it produced.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

so does all this mean that the Boss Katana is no longer leading the pack like it was a year ago ? Shocked

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Joseph Napolitano · From: New Jersey, USA

Dean thanks for your thoughtful and respectful reply. I love your playing , and I doubt that I'll ever sound half as good as you , using any amp on the planet.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The Quilter's were 2019.

Chris Grigsby · From: Boulder, CO

Ha, and I’m guessing the Tonemaster will be “So 2020.”

In all honesty, I had already ordered one of these before I played one in a GC. Set it up last night to hear it with my Emmons Push/Pull. I thought it sounded okay. Not bad, but nowhere near as good (in my opinion of course) as my stock Nashville 400 with factory mod. Yes, it is light, but it is very bulky due to the sheer size.

I’m developing a theory that what all these Class D amps seem to lack in the tone department when compared to tube or even solid state amps of yesteryear is the sound of the transformers. Again, it isn’t that they sound bad, per se, they just sound artificial to my ears and definitely different than a tube or even a traditional solid state amp. As an audio engineer, advertising would have you believe that software plug-ins sound exactly like the analog gear from which they are modeled. Nothing could be further from the truth, yet these software companies have made a mint selling people on this fantasy. Who needs a Neve console when I can own a software emulation for the low low price of $149.

Still, I applaud Fender for applying the digital modeling to a singular emulation of an amp. If I were doing double duty and needed an amp that were better suited to guitar, this would probably fit the bill. Software plug-ins have a place, and so does this amp.
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Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet.

Dean Holman · From: Branson MO

Thank you Joseph, I appreciate that very much. I will probably investigate these tone masters a little more before buying one. I was just excited to see something new and different. You know, the music store I go to, gets a lot of customers, I know for a fact that that amp has been test drove a lot and has been broken in some. I know that can play a part in why that particular amp sounds as good as it does. As we all know, everything we use tends to sound better if it’s broken in some. One thing that I did not do was play through a tube twin. So, my opinion may change yet. But, for what it is, I thought it was pretty good and it’s nice to have another option in the mix.

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

Chris Grigsby · From: Boulder, CO

Yep, I’m no electrical engineer, but I can emphatically state that there is a massive difference in a Neve console chock full of transformers and, for example, a modern-day SSL.

Historically, the guitar amp dichotomy was simply Tube or Solid State, but I would argue there is a bigger difference between traditional Solid State and Class D amplification. Ironically, in my demo of the Tonemaster with my Emmons, the Nashville 400 sounded more like a tube amp than the former, if we are talking fullness of tone. Now obviously, if you want to talk about an overdriven tube sound, then you aren’t going to that from a Peavey Nashville and must rely on the digital modeling of the TM or an actual tube amp.
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Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet.

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

Just like tube amps, all Class D amps are NOT the same.
Different circuit designs and components make quite a difference.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

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