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Topic: A Bit About Tone Bars... |
Michael Lester
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2020 9:45 am |
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I recently received two tone bars from Michael Hillman. I bought them as a direct result of seeing a SG FORUM post about his work.
Looking at the small collection of bars that I have, I could recall what I did, and didn't like about them - which prompted the search for different bars.
To be clear, I have NO credentials for discussing the differences in bars except that I wasn't satisfied with one thing or another about them.
You see the weights in the photos. Personally, I've grown to prefer lighter weight bars for straight steel. For me at least there is a lot more bar movement in straight steel (by straight steel I mean non-pedal) and the lighter bars seem to make it easier. But, I think I give up some tone with the ceramics. I'm currently using a glass bar from Ian McWee for non-pedal. It slightly heavier than the ceramics and certainly smoother on the strings. Heavy bars on straight steel feel like a lot of work. Like playing a tuba - fun to hear but glad I don't have to carry one in a parade.
For pedal steel I may have found the best I've tried so far.
None of the ceramics sound very solid on my pedal steel. They're 'fluttery' and require a lot of concentration to get a clean tone.
The glass is quite good on pedals. It's got a bit more 'gliss' in tone and is silky on the strings. But it does require, for me at least, careful pressure on the strings to avoid rattles.
The steel bar shown is over 30 years old bought from Bobbe Seymour. It's heavy and solves the rattling risk but it has a little drag on the strings. It's not scarred or chipped, it just has a steel against steel drag. Not bad, but I feel it - like it could use some lube.
So along comes Hillman bars. They weigh the same as my old 7/8" steel - but the coating is smooth as 'a boat salesman on a winter day'. The coating isn't 'slick'- it's easy to hold onto - with no noticeable drag or friction on the strings. I like these bars a whole bunch so far.
And, here's another angle I hadn't expected or thought of - the coated bars feel 'warm' to the touch. Don't challenge me to prove it because I give in - but, picking up the old steel feels like cold metal. The Hillman's don't feel cold.
By the way, I've never met Michael Hillman except through messaging via this Forum - I don't have any interest in his enterprise.
Written communication with Michael was courteous and prompt. His service was excellent and the bars arrived within days of his message.
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2020 10:25 am
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I'll bet your steel bar is stainless and you're using stainless strings, if so, that accounts for the drag.
Erv |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 22 Jan 2020 5:03 pm
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Very interesting. Most of my bars are 3 3/8" and 235 to 280 grams, I think. A hughey BJS is around 250 grams (I weighed my bars on a food scale display at Target or one of those big department stores).
here's Greg Leisz and glass bar. I'm curious about those but I drop my bars *a lot* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk4mtNFJL50
Might be one of those silica slides shown here https://www.elderly.com/collections/category_slides?_=pf&pf_t_category=Category_Bullet%20Bar%20Slides
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2020 6:33 pm
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| I have metal necks on my Super Pro, so, that means I use nickel wound strings. My bar is a BJS, 3-1/4 x 1 inch dia. Strings are D'Addario NYXL. Perfect tone combination for me. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 22 Jan 2020 7:08 pm
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Even though I play a U-12 I use a BJS 15/16 ten string bar. I have tried many bars but have settled into this bar. I am always open to trying something new. BTW, I bought a BJS 15/16 bar and had it for some time thinking it wasn’t quite right but went back to it and worked with it. Goes to show you that you might not like something right away so don’t sell it or give up on itðŸ‘
_________________
I survived the sixties! |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2020 7:13 pm
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Michael,
Your post got me thinking about bar weight.
Here are mine.
Left to right:
• 7/8" Emmons stainless steel bar - 250 grams
• 15/16" Hillman bar - 272 grams
• 1" 12-string Dunlop 921 ("The big bruiser") - 321 grams
The 7/16" Emmons is my first bar. Bought it from Manny's Music, NYC in 1973 along with an R&B Sho-Bud S-10 (first steel guitar). Used it for years without considering another, but never learned to lift the bar.
I tried the big 11 ounce Dunlop bar to compare it for tone. I really liked it, but it's a handful. Slow to move, and nearly impossible for me to lift.
The 15/16" Hillman bar is my newest, and favorite. It appeals to me in terms of tone. It handles easier than both the big Dunlop, and the smaller Emmons bar, at least for me. The coating feels slippery on the strings, but sticky in the hand. I really like this bar!
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2020 10:06 am
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I have been loving the Hillman David Wright Model!
This is the Tapered bar.
Mine is black. David's is Harley orange.
I hope he has a booth in Dallas.
It lives in a nice black leather bar bag (available in the Telonics room). |
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Michael Lester
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2020 10:18 am Stainless steel strings / stainless steel bar
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Erv...you are correct. I switched to stainless strings because of the lifespan...didn't consider the reaction of stainless to stainless. I'm quite sure the Bobbe Seymour bar is also stainless.
The Hillman solved the problem.
Thanks for your comment.
Michael |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2020 4:17 pm A bit about tone bars
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| I used a 7/8" BJS bar for probably 30 years or more. I was happy with it and had no interest in using anything else. Then I got a couple of 3/4" Hillman powder coated in a trade. After 5 minutes, I was hooked. I sold the larger BJS and have never looked back. It has almost zero drag and I can see where I am at on the fret much better. Plus, it just fits my hand much better. |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2020 4:35 pm Erv Niehaus
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Erv - Just to be clear - What material bar would you recommend for stainless steel vs nickel plated strings? What’s the rule to follow? For metal bars ?
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2020 8:26 am
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I would not use a stainless bar on stainless steel strings, you can feel the drag.
I greatly prefer a chrome bar and nickel strings, you get a much warmer sound and less drag. 
Erv |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2020 8:59 am Stainless Steel vs. Nickel plated
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Well that's good, I have got a chrome plated BJS bar, and I just received yesterday new sets of strings, some nickel plated as well as some stainless steel, both from the same company. I will be stringing up stainless steel on one guitar and the nickel plated on the other, so as luck would have it, I can start comparing next week and see how each of them feels. Thanks for the reply.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 26 Jan 2020 2:37 pm
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I would not use a stainless bar on stainless steel strings, you can feel the drag.
I greatly prefer a chrome bar and nickel strings, you get a much warmer sound and less drag.
Erv |
I’m with Erv exactly on this. Some people say the drag thing is bunkum. I think it makes perfect sense and I can feel it. It might be affected by downward pressure on the bar (positively or negatively). There is a technical term for this, escapes me at the minute
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Thomas Stone
From:
San Francisco
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Posted 26 Jan 2020 3:13 pm
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| Jeremy Threlfall wrote: |
| There is a technical term for this, escapes me at the minute |
Coefficient of friction |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Tom Suchon
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2020 8:16 am
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| I love my powder coated Hillman bars, but after having them for a while,and using them daily, they are looking scruffy. Does anyone "clean" their bars with anything? thanks |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2020 8:26 am
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I bought a couple of guitars from Williams.
When I got them I was a little disappointed in the tone.
I contacted Bill and asked him if he put stainless strings on his guitar.
He replied in the affirmative.
I replaced the stainless strings with nickel and then I got the tone I was looking for.
Erv
Tom,
I don't think you can clean them, I think you are wearing off the powder coating.
If you want a smooth bar, other than metal, you need a zirconium bar.
If you see a steeler with a white bar (they also come in black) that is a zirconium bar.
As smooth as snot on a door knob!!  |
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Tom Suchon
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2020 8:51 am
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| Thank you,Erv. I posted in the WTB section looking for a Zirc bar a few months ago. [looking for ANYTHING to make me sound better]. nada. Anybody have one they want to sell? Yes, I'm looking at you, Mickey ! LOL |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2020 8:57 am
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Tom,
I have both a white zirc bar and a black.
I bought them when they were available a while back.
Then, the way I understand it, the raw materials got SO expensive that it wasn't practical to make them anymore.
I really like mine and, right now, it is my main bar along with my BJS chrome bar.
Erv |
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Tom Suchon
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2020 9:10 am
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Erv, I,too, love my BJS bar.
I also like my ceramic bar.
different sounds with different settings,still trying to make this thing cry! |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2020 9:28 am
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Tom,
I appreciate the zirc bar when things get cold up here on the tundra, it feels warmer to the hand.
Erv |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2020 12:22 pm
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| Tom, my black Hillman bar is starting to look scruffy too. I believe he will recoat them for a lower price. Seems I've read that before. |
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