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Topic: Santo and Johnny Adventures in Paradise Tuning Question |
Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2019 8:50 am |
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Any idea what the tuning is here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrzIijnuQ_E
I came across this (abridged) post from a thread on Teardrops:
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Michael, the original key is F. I don't have tab but I play it note for note like the original in C#m7. Santo used, from high to low- E-C#-G#-E-C#-B-G#-E for his eight string tuning for Tear Drop, Sleepwalk, Caravan and many of his other hits.
For what it's worth, Santo's other tunings were A6th (heard on their Hawaiian album) and E7th "just for effect" according to Santo in a "Guitar Player" interview.
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However I'm hearing something that sounds more like a B11, could this be the A6th tuning mentioned above perhaps? And which A6 tuning would this be? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2019 10:04 am
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The F6 and F#6 chords at 0:10 etc must be strumming the A6 tuning at frets 8 and 9.
The C13 chord at 0:20 etc is C G Bb D E A, which is probably the lowest 6 strings of E13 tuning at fret 8. |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2019 12:06 pm
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| Thanks Earnest, I'm assuming this A6 tuning would be E-C#-A-F#-E-C#-A-F# Correct? Also would that mean that the E13 tuning is E-C#-B-G#-F#-D-G#-E ? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2019 2:45 pm
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| Jeremy DeHart wrote: |
| I'm assuming this A6 tuning would be E-C#-A-F#-E-C#-A-F# Correct? |
Probably. But the only things I hear together are 4 or 5 strings in the middle:
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C#
A
F#
E
C# (maybe once)
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?
?
| Jeremy DeHart wrote: |
| .. would that mean that the E13 tuning is E-C#-B-G#-F#-D-G#-E ? |
Maybe. He could do that by re-tuning (raising) strings 4 and 5 on his C#m tuning. But when he arpeggiates that C13th chord it really sounds like he is using just one pick across 6 adjacent strings, with no lower E note (open string would be low G#), so I suspect this is his "E7 neck" (re)tuned to
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E
C#
G#
F#
D
B
E |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 26 Dec 2019 3:03 pm
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This kind of thing is a fun exercise (I recently tried to take a stab at which tuning Jules was using on each track of the Tapa Room Tapes...lots of C13 and E13, some B11).
Could definitely be a multiple neck thing...I kind of thought it through as if a single neck/tuning. The top definitely seems high 5th (1-3-5) like an A6. The bottom strum is consistently something like this:
0:20, 0:45, 1:35
1 5 b7 9 3 (pause?) 6/13
So you could have a A9th tuning (haha go with me on this) and that little pause before he hits the 13th each time is a bar shift...well, not really likely...unless he was shifting necks, but there is a definite (brief) pause there.
OK, all my conjecturing aside, wow, what a distinctive touch he had. That line at 0:18. He and Andy Iona are my favorite "single note" players.
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2019 5:07 am
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Totally agreed Nic! Santo at 22 was a ridiculous player. One thing about single note is you're out there all alone so all of the inflection and intonation is all on display, and he just thrived there!
Thanks for these notes, deconstructing this stuff is so much fun! |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2019 5:48 am
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OK I think I figured it out! He was using Jules' E13 tuning!
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/tunings/setups.php?link=1019
And instead of them being adjacent strings he starts on the 8th string on fret 8 then skips to the 6th string and plays adjecents all the way up to the 2nd string! The notes in the chord are C-G-Bb-D-E-A and this plays perfectly with that tuning and those string skips! Success!
Now I'm gonna go back through all the songs that sound like they have E13 and see if this is the right tuning for those. |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2019 7:34 am
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ok so on Earnest's point, these could be ALL adjacent strings and the other thing I've noticed in several songs is somehow he is playing a double note (not sure what to call 2 strings on the same pitch here, not octaves). Listen to All Night Diner the note he plays after the little intro motif sounds to me like the same note on 2 (what I'm assuming would also be adjacent strings) at 00:07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fxTpl3v6Yg
Also here in A Thousand Miles Away at 00:30:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkLEH9pJLdk
Granted this is an overdub, but in the prior post he references his "E7" neck as "Just for effect" in the interview which I still can't find anywhere.
SO if this was a "Just for effect" tuning, is it possible he had all of these strings adjacent from 8-3(Remove the low G# on Jules' E13 tuning), then had a DOUBLE high E on strings 1-2? That would truly be a unique tuning, and probably one you wouldn't attempt to play a full song on as well. |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2019 11:56 am
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Jeremy, that comment about the E7th tuning "just for effect" is a direct quote from a 1980's interview in "Guitar Player" magazine - "Unsung Heroes" column. I still have the clipping from that interview since an interview with Santo was so rare. His other two tunings were given as C#m7 and A6th. Of course most of their big hits were recorded with C#m7 and Santo said that the tunings were not that important since so much of his playing was single note, heavily influenced by the great pop vocalists of the era.
I think Santo's "singing" approach to playing was important to the success of their hits and has been a good lesson to me in terms of trying to be more "vocal" or expressive on the steel guitar and not being as "technical" as I can be just because I can. |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2019 12:28 pm
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| I very much agree Frank, and this is something that gets said about Santo quite often. While I do agree that most of his beautiful playing was single note, and the real magic and quality of his playing was in those spaces between the notes of his playing, the reality is that the tunings really DO matter in my amateur opinion. They reveal a level of sophistication and nuance that is as much a part of his musical stylings as his dead-on intonation and rapid vibrato. Jerry Byrd said that the steel guitar is a very intimate instrument and no two players sound alike and this is so true. But the specific tunings make sense as to the voicings that Santo chose for Sleepwalk. In my opinion he was coming from a huge desire to play instrumental doo-wop on steel guitar, understanding where all of that lies on the neck is so much a part of how he played. Anyway, part of it too is that I just love the forensic element and I also have a desire to hear the exact transcriptions which is always so elusive with steel. |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2019 1:44 pm
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Just one more comment...only after many years did I discover the C13th and B11th tunings that were featured prominently by Jules and Barney on "Hawaii Calls" when I thought as a novice that the steel guitar was simply tuned to an A major like my "Nick Manoloff Hawaiian Guitar Method" book used for beginners like myself.
Now I am happily up to my ears in "Hawaii Calls" style since I became familiar with C13th and B11th and even fool around with the Jules version of E13th.
I agree that the tuning does matter...it certainly opened doors for me. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 28 Dec 2019 7:56 am
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Yeah, it probably is, but I learned to do it single neck with those different voices (in C13, but a C6 with a G on the 7th string makes it a lot easier). Love that song (had never heard the original before I discovered his cover).
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Jeremy DeHart
From:
North Carolina, USA
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