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Topic: strumming octaves on C6???? |
Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2022 2:49 pm |
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So, I'm listening to Buddy's "Night Life" on the Black album, which I've heard many times over the years, but never gave this any thought before. I'm mystified as to what he's doing starting around 2:11. It sounds like he's strumming (as opposed to picking) octaves a la Wes Montgomery, which is relatively easy to do on standard guitar, but I don't understand how this is done on steel in standard C6 tuning, where you'd have to somehow mute the in-between strings. Do you think I'm misinterpreting what my ears tell me, or is there actually a way to do this?
https://youtu.be/2wXPiOnX4ls?t=131
All I can think of is a custom bar, but that seems ridiculously far fetched, so I assume I'm missing something obvious...
- Slim
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Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Andrew Goulet
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Posted 3 Feb 2022 4:54 pm
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It sounds like picking to me, with a heavy hand and a quick block. Like you said, I don't know how else he would do it.
Also, love to see Wes Montgomery popping up in a steel guitar thread. What a player.
_________________
Marlen S12 pedal steel
12 string Bill Hatcher lap steel
ZT Club and Lunchbox |
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2022 5:24 pm
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| Andrew Goulet wrote: |
…
Also, love to see Wes Montgomery popping up in a steel guitar thread. What a player. |
Indeed. Wes, like Buddy, was in a class of his own, a guitar hero to so many….
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Feb 2022 7:40 pm
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Sounds to me like a combination of a quick thumb-sweep of 3 or 4 strings while picking 2 (adjacent) higher strings with the fingers. It's a very common technique that many advanced players use to get fuller (5 and 6 note) chords with only 3 picks.
Chalker used it extensively on C6th to get that "full sound" on his chord work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noxhY3q-uYU
Last edited by Donny Hinson on 3 Feb 2022 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2022 7:42 pm
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| Slim, have to agree it sounds like an octave strumm but I can't say he did it this way live when I seen him. No idea how this was done. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Feb 2022 7:54 pm
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| Listening closely, I can hear other notes in there along with the octave strings. As long as the top and bottom notes are an octave, it's a simple matter to emphasize them. |
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2022 7:59 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Listening closely, I can hear other notes in there along with the octave strings. As long as the top and bottom notes are an octave, it's a simple matter to emphasize them. |
Thanks Donny, that makes a lot of sense (except for the "simple matter" part). 
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2022 6:19 am
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| in an article he said he first carved out a bar so the strings between would not play but was too hard to align. he ended up using his left thumb over the bar to mute the middle strings then strum all. i tried it and it's hard and would take lots of practice. he must have worked on it a lot. |
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2022 6:52 am
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| Gary Spaeth wrote: |
| in an article he said he first carved out a bar so the strings between would not play but was too hard to align. he ended up using his left thumb over the bar to mute the middle strings then strum all. i tried it and it's hard and would take lots of practice. he must have worked on it a lot. |
Aha! So a two-thumb strum technique -- Wes would be proud  .
Thanks, for sharing that story -- it does seem do-able (especially if your thumb's the right size).
- Slim
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Feb 2022 6:58 am
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| Gary, he may be doing just that, as there are some inconsistencies in the sound. On some of the "strums", I'm hearing a pronounced fifth interval, and on others it's partially muted. The sound of the "in between" semi-muted strings is definitely a part of the charm of Wes's technique, and Buddy often copied techniques used by other players. |
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Andrew Goulet
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Posted 4 Feb 2022 7:00 am
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| Gary Spaeth wrote: |
| in an article he said he first carved out a bar so the strings between would not play but was too hard to align. he ended up using his left thumb over the bar to mute the middle strings then strum all. i tried it and it's hard and would take lots of practice. he must have worked on it a lot. |
Whoa! Now that is some serious bar/hand mind melding.
_________________
Marlen S12 pedal steel
12 string Bill Hatcher lap steel
ZT Club and Lunchbox |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2022 7:04 am
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| i play without picks so i jam my first finger between the two strings above the low note and strum the lowest three strings and pick the high octave with my second finger. it sounds pretty good. this won't work with picks unless you could wrap the topside of the pick with some deadening material or it makes a clangy sound. |
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Pete McAvity
From:
St. Louis, Missouri USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2022 7:12 am
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He worked on everything a lot. I think the best way to accomplish this effect is to quit your day job.
_________________
Excel Superb D10, Sarno Black Box or Freeloader, Goodrich L120, Boss DD5, Baby Bloomer, 1965 Super Reverb chopped to a head, feeding a mystery PA cab w/ a K130.
They say "thats how it goes". I say "that ain't the way it stays!" |
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Colin Swinney
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2022 7:56 am
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| Pete McAvity wrote: |
| He worked on everything a lot. I think the best way to accomplish this effect is to quit your day job. |
And then to make your day job performing with the greatest musicians in country music. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 4 Feb 2022 10:08 am
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| Great thread. It sure is those 'in between' muted strings that make that Wes Montgomery sound happen. On guitar, one can mute almost all but the ringing octaves for a real percussive, funk thing. I feel some of the more expressive sacred steel players would have a grip on this technique for steel.... |
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Pete McAvity
From:
St. Louis, Missouri USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2022 10:52 am
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| Colin Swinney wrote: |
| Pete McAvity wrote: |
| He worked on everything a lot. I think the best way to accomplish this effect is to quit your day job. |
And then to make your day job performing with the greatest musicians in country music. |
Ayup.
_________________
Excel Superb D10, Sarno Black Box or Freeloader, Goodrich L120, Boss DD5, Baby Bloomer, 1965 Super Reverb chopped to a head, feeding a mystery PA cab w/ a K130.
They say "thats how it goes". I say "that ain't the way it stays!" |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Slim Heilpern
From:
Aptos California, USA
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Posted 5 Feb 2022 6:10 am
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Thanks for digging that up Andy!
Before I asked the question here I had done a search, but apparently searched for the wrong terms. What an amazing resource the forum is...
_________________
Chromatic Harmonica, Guitar, and Pedal Steel (Williams U12 Series 700, Emmons lap)
http://slimandpenny.com |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 5 Feb 2022 6:32 am
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there was another article where he also mentioned the cut out bar. maybe ask buddy at buddyemmons.com |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Andrew Goulet
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Posted 5 Feb 2022 4:58 pm
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Steel guitar is truly a special instrument in a special time and space. We can speak with masters who created seminal recordings. Steel guitarists 50 years from now will be envious.
_________________
Marlen S12 pedal steel
12 string Bill Hatcher lap steel
ZT Club and Lunchbox |
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