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Topic: Solid state amp players who also play guitar professionally? |
Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 10 Nov 2019 11:27 pm |
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Just a question I've been wondering about.
So many steel players on here preach Peavey amps for steel.
Granted I hate Peavey solid state amps for steel but I realize that a lot of folks like them. I love the classic tones of tube amps and for SURE the midrange feel that comes from a good tube amp.
My questions is to folks that also play 6 string electric. Do you show up with a PV or do you use something else?
Around here if you showed up with 2 rack mount effect units into a peavey amplifier to play a guitar show you would be laughed out of the place.
EVERY good professional guitar player I know plays a good quality tube amp. It's not even a discussion.
I think a pedal steel guitar is still actually a guitar and I vastly prefer the tone and feel of a tube amp. Just my preference.. I don't think that guitar and pedal steel guitar are two crazy different beasts... I just like a QUALITY AMP and to me that means tube amp.
Really just wondering if there are pedal steel players here that play PV's or something like that for steel and then also rock that for guitar and love it.
Not trying to judge! each to their own but was just curious if anyone shows up to six string gig rocking the solid stage PV and saying "oh yea.. this Is IT".
Okay if you do.. just have never seen it and wondering! |
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Sandy Inglis
From:
Christchurch New Zealand
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 12:48 am
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Hi Josh
I play mostly electric 6 string/mandolin at the moment and use a Hi-Watt 20/40W tube amp. I also have a NV1000 which is great for PSG but I now prefer to only use the Hi-Watt as the PSG sounds OK through it for the odd times I play it. If I was doing a big show, I would have both amps set up as each is preferable on certain instruments. Most gigs don't justify too much gear. The little Hi-Watt really packs a punch and I rarely use it on the 40W setting.
Sandy
_________________
01'Zumsteel D10 9+9; Sho Bud D10 SuperPro; 6 String Lap Steel (Homemade); Peavey Nashville 1000; Fender Deluxe 85;
1968 Gibson SG; Taylor 710 CE; Encore Tele Copy; Peterson Tuner; HIWATT T40 C 40W/20W Combo |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 5:46 am
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| A lot of jazz guitar players seem to prefer solid state, old Polytones and the like. I did notice a buddy I went to hear last week had replaced his Polytone with what looked like a Blues Jr. I liked his sound better. |
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Gabriel Edell
From:
Hamilton, Ontario
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 6:17 am
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| Bill Sinclair wrote: |
| A lot of jazz guitar players seem to prefer solid state, old Polytones and the like. I did notice a buddy I went to hear last week had replaced his Polytone with what looked like a Blues Jr. I liked his sound better. |
You know, I never understood this. A lot of Jazz players will plug a $10K+ handmade archtop guitar into a little solidstate amp. It sounds OK but I bet it would sound a whole lot better if they used good tube amps. A friend of mine (unfortunately passed) played a Benedetto through a custom Red Plate tube amp and it sounded amazing. Charlie Christian’s tone was pretty hot – he had some gain going. At some point in the 60s a lot of jazz players got really conservative with their tone for some reason.
_________________
GFI S-10 P U, Moyo Volume, Fender Steel King, Fender 5F4 Super-Amp |
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Mitch Adelman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 6:50 am
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| I use an old Peavey LA 400 amp with Fox Mod for both steel and guitar. To make it into a poor mans hybrid tube amp, I put my Sarno black box at the end of the effects chain. I know its a misuse because its suppose to be first. But this way it enables me with the earth drive to push the tube in the black box and get a great tube clean or overdriven tone from this little beast of an amp with my tele and steel. Works for me anyway! |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 8:10 am
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I would say the bottom line is... A used $75 Peavey Bandit 65 from the 80's sounds amazingly like a $750 Twin Reverb to most people in bar band land once the band starts playing.
Also, Most pictures of Buddy Emmons show him using a Peavey Amp. |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 9:08 am
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I sell a lot of Jazz guitar players their "first tube amp" and they are always ecstatic when they plug in.
many of them want something small and light with a lot of headroom and in recent history, that meant solid state
luckily that has changed - my hybrid designs are lighter than even the lightest solid state amps ever were. They are even lighter than some of the more recent digital re-creations of tube amps. There's not much reason not to use tubes unless its financial
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 9:29 am
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| Tim Marcus wrote: |
| ...There's not much reason not to use tubes unless its financial |
That is a big reason. You basically lose the entire weekend warrior crowd. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 9:36 am
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
| Tim Marcus wrote: |
| ...There's not much reason not to use tubes unless its financial |
That is a big reason. You basically lose the entire weekend warrior crowd. |
In my 15 years of music instrument retail I found the weekend warriors were the only ones with much money to spend on gear. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 9:59 am
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I switch off between non-pedal steel and guitar during a show. I've played all-tube amps for years, but with the advent of cheap (yet good-sounding) Class D power amps, in the last few years I've started building rigs from tube preamps and solid-state power amps. Currently I'm running a Sarno V8 into a DV Mark 50W mini SS amp; I get those beautiful tube cleans with a reasonably good reverb simulator and plenty of power in under 20 lbs. All the dirt comes from pedals, but that's what I did with all-tube amps anyway. There are enough solid-state players around here that nobody really turns a head.
It's nice to see builders taking this hybrid approach seriously. I recently picked up a Milkman Half & Half, which accomplishes much the same thing as my piecemeal-rig but with actual spring reverb, more power, and about the same weight. I have yet to encounter a serious drawback from either amp, either tonal or otherwise. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 11:10 am
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| Marc Jenkins wrote: |
| Pete Burak wrote: |
| Tim Marcus wrote: |
| ...There's not much reason not to use tubes unless its financial |
That is a big reason. You basically lose the entire weekend warrior crowd. |
In my 15 years of music instrument retail I found the weekend warriors were the only ones with much money to spend on gear. |
All I know is I see alot of Peavey amps at my weekend warrior gigs and gigs I attend.
I set up next to a guy with a Milkman last weekend at a Steel Jam and my Session 400 with original JBL sounded better. They can be had for around $350. Other players hear that the Peaveys sound just as good so why spend the money.
I still have my Peavey Pacer from 9th grade. My tube amp tech calls it The Princeton Reverb Killer. I recently saw one for $80 on Craigslist. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 1:47 pm
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| Josh Yenne wrote: |
Around here if you showed up with 2 rack mount effect units into a peavey amplifier to play a guitar show you would be laughed out of the place.
EVERY good professional guitar player I know plays a good quality tube amp. It's not even a discussion.
I think a pedal steel guitar is still actually a guitar and I vastly prefer the tone and feel of a tube amp. |
I think being in Fender country California it was the norm to be using what was readily available and cultivated into the sound for decades.
The Ventures, The Beach Boys.
Pedal steel using an amp from the Mississippi/Tennessee area was cultivated through a Peavey amp.
The steel guitar through a Peavey just happened to be the sound. But it didn't happen without help.
Basically a solid state amp has a faster transient response and a faster slew rate.
It appears that these factors made the solid state amp a go-to for steel players.
Granted it's a "guitar" but there is a lot more happening to a pedal steel than strumming 6 strings.
There are a multitude of harmonics cascading and overlapping each other with multiple strings and bends.
The sound of all that has to be as free of sag as much as possible if the classic clean pedal steel sound is to be achieved.
A high-power solid state amp has more headroom.
Back to Peavey, it was Julian Tharpe that went to Hartley and tasked him with coming up with an amp that can handle the wide range of pedal steel frequencies.
Julian Tharpe
From this alliance, the Session/Nashville line of steel guitar amps was born.
Unless one is playing into a Class A (Vox) tube power amp is there going to be a better response as with a Class A the positive voltage through the tube is going through ALL THE TIME!
The tube is ready to amplify the signal at all times.
In a Class AB (Fender/Marshall) negative “bias†voltage is applied to the grid, causing the tube to “shut off†when the audio waveform is below a certain point. Then another tube is associated in the AB circuit that is turning on before the first one turns off and is reproducing the rest of the waveform.
Hence two tubes share the job of reproducing the full audio waveform.
There has to be a lag.
There are pros and cons to A vs AB but none of this concerns a solid state amp user, like faster use of tubes in a Class A, Class AB not as responsive as a Class A.
A solid state amp needs more power though to give pedal steel a full sound.
Note that the Black Widow was designed in league with Julian when he kept blowing his JBL's tied to his Peavey.
The west coast had Leo! The deep south, Hartley!
We are blessed that we have many choices these days.
Some will find a tube amp fast enough for their needs, while others need something faster like a solid state.
I get the solid state/pedal steel connection.
Have to trust the steel luminaries for their insights.
They brought us the sound after all. 
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 2:11 pm
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| Quote: |
| Basically a solid state amp has a faster transient response and a faster slew rate. |
How about a tube amp with a solid state rectifier? Does that give you the same quick response as a solid state amp?
Thanks
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 2:19 pm
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Its a bit faster Zirb.. you really can feel it if you swap them. But not as quick as SS.
And Godfrey all understood... its preference for sure and I understand why people choose the SS.. for me its about feel and midrange and such.
I also do NOT want that pristine, no distortion, tone that a massive amount of solid state watts provides...
My "luminarie" is Lloyds tone on the Live at Panther hall album... which is a Twin Reverb cranked... i really really don't like super clean steel for myself.
Also a pedal into a SS amp is not the same kind of "life" you get from pushing pre and even power tubes in a Tube amp.
But each to their own. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 2:48 pm
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Hear ya Josh.
My intro to pedal steel was the recorded songs on country hit radio, watching Hee Haw and The Porter Wagoner Show.
It took a long while for me to connect to the inner sanctum of the guitar and it only came about with advances in communication like the internet. 
Guitar Player magazine wasn't doing anything and neither were the other guitar mags.
You couldn't find a pedal steel dealer just everywhere and not every place had a country pub dragging bar.
To me it was a close kept secret.
Jammed with a psg gentleman in Phoenix named "Arkee" Freeman, he played with Elvis once, he told me, while I was on the road.
But I can understand the tone you're going after.
Playing clean steel is not as easy as it sounds.
I stumbled upon this clip the other day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXqH7F1z6v0
Some may recognize him at once.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 2:58 pm
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Do they have a Steel Jam in your area, Josh?
Setting up right next to a tube amp guy made me realize how much tube and SS sound the same in the mix.
Here's Lloyd using a Vegas 400 which is a dual channel amp like a Twin Reverb is.
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 3:44 pm
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Don't need a steel jam.. i've played SO many amps in my day...have worked in some aspect with a local music store for 20 years.
Again... for me... although I sorta disagree about them sounding the same in the mix... I'm talking about how it sounds to me.
I have NEVER played a solid state amp that FEELS as good as a tube amp. For guitar that is.
The way tubes work just feel better in the mid range and highs to me...
I realize its just opinion and what feels good to you... the question was more about whether any of you play PV for the steel and then plug a guitar into it and think "oh yea... thats it!" |
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 3:51 pm
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| and by guitar I mean... pedal steel guitar or regular. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 3:58 pm
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The reason I mention the Steel Jam is, it sounds like you need to sit next to someone who is blowing you off the map with their Peavey amp.
The latest greatest thing seems to be the Travis Toy SS Quilter AMP. I have not played through one yet.
Telonics are all SS Amps and go for over 2 Grand. My Jazz Guitar friend swears by them, and I have heard him say, "oh yea... thats it!"
About a month ago I got an Acoustic Image Class D amp and it sounds really good to me for a SS amp. It clips on to my Steel Seat.
My main amp is a Stereo Steel Head, which is basically two Session 400's in a Head.
I have done double duty guitar/steel gigs with a Vegas 400, and other times with a Stereo Chorus 400 Head.
It sounded just fine to me in the mix of a 5 piece band.
When someone finally noticed, all they said was, wow that Peav' sounds good.
You might want to check out Brad Sarno's take on this. He is about the biggest tube amp nut I know, but he has a web page dedicated to Peavey Session 400 amps.
Here's one of his old threads. If I can find his Session 400 page i will post it.
https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/003822.html |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 7:33 pm
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| I have attended over 100 steel shows and listened to every amp played by the pros for countless hours. With that said I haven't seen any tube amp outshine a Peavey played by a pro. I own 2 early Fender Twin Reverbs, 2 Bassman, a Deluxe Reverb, and a room full of Peavey and other make SS amps. My gigging amp is a Peavey Session 400 for steel and a Special 130, or Bandit for 6 string guitar. I have seen the best players sound so good on the same equipment that I believe any weakness in sound is me. Sure I use a Peavey Profex ll or a Lexicon Mpx1 for effects. After all, I am copying the gear of the giants in our history. |
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Chris Grigsby
From:
Boulder, CO
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 9:32 pm
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To the OP, if you truly have experience with guitar amps then you know that there are great sounding tube amps and abysmal sounding tube amps; the same holds true for solid state.
I've owned countless boutique tube amps over the years as well, but for pedal steel I have had the privilege of owning at one time or another a Milkman 40W Mini, Milkman Creamer, Little Walter Paul Franklin '89, a Nashville 112, a Nashville 400, and currently a Telonics Mini 12. When it comes to pedal steel guitar, they all sounded great, but the Telonics is my favorite with the Little Walter '89 coming in a close second. But for $300, the Nashville 400 is certainly on par with any pedal steel amp ever made...at a fraction of the cost.
When it comes to 6-string, I personally hate the sound of an overdriven power amp section, so I could probably get by with something like the Milkman 'The Amp' that uses a tube preamp with a class D power amp. I got good results running a Wampler Tumnus overdrive (Klone) into my Milkman tube amps, but actually didn't like the natural overdrive on either the 40W or the Creamer.
_________________
Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 10:35 pm
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
| Marc Jenkins wrote: |
| Pete Burak wrote: |
| Tim Marcus wrote: |
| ...There's not much reason not to use tubes unless its financial |
That is a big reason. You basically lose the entire weekend warrior crowd. |
In my 15 years of music instrument retail I found the weekend warriors were the only ones with much money to spend on gear. |
All I know is I see alot of Peavey amps at my weekend warrior gigs and gigs I attend.
I set up next to a guy with a Milkman last weekend at a Steel Jam and my Session 400 with original JBL sounded better. They can be had for around $350. Other players hear that the Peaveys sound just as good so why spend the money.
I still have my Peavey Pacer from 9th grade. My tube amp tech calls it The Princeton Reverb Killer. I recently saw one for $80 on Craigslist. |
Wont dispute that, though I suspect that it may be different in Canada. When I was growing up in the 80s, you were a very unlucky kid if you had to play through a Peavey... |
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 11:36 pm
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| And once again my original question has been mostly discounted by almost all! 🙃😠|
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 11:38 pm
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| My questions is to folks that also play 6 string electric. Do you show up with a PV or do you use something else? |
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 11 Nov 2019 11:39 pm
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| And PS. I never mentioned weekend warriors. Just pros 😠|
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