Flat 7 with AB pedals

Jon Voth · From: Virginia, USA

I tune using the Peterson tuner sweetened setting.

Using A&B pedals, it's tempting to use right knee left for a flat 7(standard Emmons). I'm aware of how that doesn't quite add up and it's out of tune.

I had a lesson with someone in my area (who's been playing longer than I've been alive-I'm 50) and he did that which sounded fine. He's also into using equal temp.

So I tuned to equal temp. and that still sounded out of tune for me.

My question is-does anyone use right knee left to get a flat 7 (with A&B pressed) or is that taboo?

Thanks.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

It's not clear to me what your right knee left does. And what strings are you playing to try to get a dominant seventh chord?
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Yes, for instance with A and B down my RKL gives a sus4 or a 7#9, depending on which strings I play.

No two guitars are the same - well, some two but not any two.

It sounds as though your guitar is not set up for split tuning, or if it is, you need to tune the 7th first, then the full lower.
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Sam Werbalowsky · From: New York, USA

Check this out: https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=192580

Your guitar may or may not have splits. If there are screws on the changer that control how far the lower finger can go, then you have splits. If you don't have splits, you could change your LKR to raise 7 a half step rather than lower 6 a full step and use that for the b7.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

I use A+B+RKL (F#>G, no splits) for a dom7 chord voicing and have no serious tuning issue.

Itâ€™s a string instrument. Something is going to be slightly out of tune at some point no matter what method is used to get it â€œperfectlyâ€ in tune at some other point. Every tuning method is a compromise, in other words. Use that chord voicing and figure out how to get the tuning acceptable.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Depending on the guitar, it is pretty easy to add a split with the "extra rod" method.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

In my case my LKL2 raises 1,2 and 7. I can very easily half-pedal that LKL2 and get an accurate b7th chord with pedals down.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Jon Voth · From: Virginia, USA

Sorry I should have been more specific,

My GFI D10 is standard as it came, only 4 knee levers.

My right knee pulled left pulls string 6 down a whole step (Maj 3 down to a 2nd).

With AB pressed, string 6 becomes the tonic (of the main grips) and pulling it down doesn't quite reach a flat 7 (it's a bit high).

So just wondering if it's common or not practice to use this, to create a dominate chord. I mean it's there, maybe used quickly, but it's not really in tune.

Thanks.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

It's very common to use the 6th string lower with the B pedal to get that G note for the dom 7. But, to get an in tune G as well as an in tune F#, you will most likely need a split tuning setup for that change. Very few are lucky enough to get that G in tune without a split tuner.

Does the knee lever lower the 6th string all the way to F#, in tune? If not, you may need to move rods to different bellcrank/changer holes. Or, increase the travel on the knee lever.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Forgive my ignorance, but why would a changer have that capability without a tunable split? It makes perfect sense that if you have an open string tuned to G# and a lever lowering it to F#, that same string raised to A will not lower accurately to G with the same lever. The string tension has changed, but the leverâ€™s functionality has not been adjusted to compensate for it.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Disregard my prior comment that I've now deleted. I was wrong. If your split tuning is set up properly you should be able to get that G pitch on the sixth string.

If you want a dominant seventh chord at the pedals down position, and refuse to consider moving the bar, another option is to have a lever to raise either or both the 7th and 1st strings from an F# to a G. Or you have to get good at reaching up to the first string with the fingers of your left hand, while still keeping the bar under control, and pulling the first string sharp enough to hit the G pitch. I've never mastered that.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I've mastered slicing cheese with a wire - that's enough for me.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Jon,

to get the G to be in tune AND have the lower to F# be in tune, you need to install an extra pull rod between the bellcrank on the RKL and the changer. I assume you can order one from GFI. That bellcrank already has a rod for lowering string six. You will need to add a rod to simultaneously raise the same string very slightly. Sounds counter-intuitive, but it actually makes a lot of sense once you gather what's going on. The method (on a GFI) is described in this thread:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2746021&sid=3adb9e72f05fe89a399dfe8987589a23

Here is a diagram:

https://www.pedalsteel.fr/images/template-content/tmp6055.png

That page is describing the same principle on string five (raising to C#, splitting to C-natural) but visually it is the same deal as what you are doing on string six.

I have this on my Super Pro and it works extremely well.

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