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Topic: New 14 string Sierra |
John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 28 Aug 2009 3:25 am |
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| Hi, anyone here play a 14 string steel? |
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Whip Lashaway
From:
Monterey, Tenn, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2009 7:19 am
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John, I have an SCM14SE. I played it for several years but found that I didn't use the outside strings..1 and 14..so I took them off and I play it as a 12 string. You can get some big fat chords but I just didn't use them enough to keep them on.
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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string
Excel S12 8x9 blue
Excel S12 8x9 black |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 28 Aug 2009 9:38 am
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Gee, by the "Subject" line, I was hoping to see someone's new 14-stringer. That would be cool to see pics of all of these that exist in "Forumland". I used to have one, but sold it to a gentleman in Tokyo.
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
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Steelin' for Jesus |
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Gary Newcomb
From:
AustinTexas, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2009 4:00 pm
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I love my sierra. It's only a 12string ( only). I agree with Glenn- let's see a pic of this lovely thing.
I thought about a 14 but never took the pepsi challenge. The low B on the 12 is a "68 or "70 and costs about 4$. What's the low string on the 14 cost?
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Sierra Session U12, Milkman 1/2, Goodrich Omni, Divine Noise Cables, BJS, Solid cosmic gold, baby 👶🻠|
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 29 Aug 2009 2:10 am
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Thanks for your replys, I just bought a Sierra 14 uni.
What a monster guitar, I love the big fat bottom end sound, I played two gigs with it and every member of the band love the sound, I also have a 12 string sierra as well, the first night I did not tell them I had a new steel , after the first song they all said
'you sound good tonight' then the bass player spotted that I was playing a new guitar..
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 29 Aug 2009 8:12 am
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I have been told that my guitar belonged to Bill Stafford at one time.. If bill still comes on the forum
maybe he could let me know if this so..
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Barry Hyman
From:
upstate New York, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2009 1:13 pm
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What's the tuning?
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 31 Aug 2009 12:13 am
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It's more or less this setup |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 31 Aug 2009 4:23 am
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Hey John, cool lookin' axe. When I first saw it, I thought it was the Sierra I used to own. However, mine had 8 pedals and 7 knees. Regarding the Bill Stafford connection; A number of years ago, I had my Sierra at the Dallas Convention and Bill Stafford saw it. After looking it over, he thought it might have been one of the first S14's he built while working for Don Christiansen, at Sierra. Like yours, mine had the "first generation" gearless tuners, which look like a threaded shaft with a Sperzle tuning key attached. Mine was built in 1983. Yours is probably about the same age, maybe as new as 1985. So, It's quite likely that Bill Stafford built yours, also.
My tuning differed from yours in that, Pedal 1 also raised string 13 to C#; Pedal 7 raised strings 4, 7, and 11 to A; the inside LKL raised string 6 to C# and string 7 to A# (the normal 7th pedal change); the inside LKR lowered string 8 to G; LKV lowered string 3 to C# (no half-stop), raised string 5 to F#, and lowered string 8 to G.
Gary, regarding your question about the cost of the 14th string (low E - 0.80"); I was paying about $4.00 for those. I always bought those directly from Sierra, as an 0.80" guitar string (not a bass string) was almost impossible to find elsewhere. (GHS makes one, but try to find a distributor that stocks that gauge). Regarding the "Pepsi Challenge", if you ever get a chance to try a Sierra S14 with the tuning that John has or the "Stafford" tuning like the one I had, try it. It really isn't more difficult than playing a 12-string E9/B6. If Bill Stafford see's this, maybe he can explain the "pluses". He can expound on the virtues of the extra two strings, much better than I can.
John, Gary, one thing I always liked about the Sierra, aside from the legendary reliability, was the tone of the guitar. Especially when playing the extended chords that a universal 12 or 14-string tuning is capable of.
Keep on pickin', amigos! 
Glenn
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Steelin' for Jesus |
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Gary Newcomb
From:
AustinTexas, USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2009 6:13 am
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Shoot, don't wanna digress from the topic... But Glenn, what's the Stafford tuning? I
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Sierra Session U12, Milkman 1/2, Goodrich Omni, Divine Noise Cables, BJS, Solid cosmic gold, baby 👶🻠|
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 31 Aug 2009 6:32 am
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Gary, if you add the changes I described to what John already has on his S14 (including the difference to the LKV knee lever, and Pedal 7), you'll have a the basic tuning that Bill Stafford formulated for his S14 guitars, as of about 10 years ago. Keep in mind, Bill seems to routinely experiment with the copedant, so this may not be accurate as of today. One thing that Bill has, even on his Excel "Superb" S14 guitar, is a tab on his 7th pedal which allows for pedals 5, 6, and 7 to be activated, simultaneously (you step on pedals 5 and 6, and the tab for pedal 7). There again, Bill would be the one to explain all of the advantages of his copedant.
Oh, and one other thing I forgot to mention about the tuning I had on my Sierra S14: String 12, along with strings 9 and 5 raised to F on LKL.
A few words about Bill (and many others will concur): He's a brilliant player and one of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
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Steelin' for Jesus |
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Michael Stover
From:
Kansas City
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Posted 31 Aug 2009 8:25 am
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I play a 13-string Fessenden. Basically it's a universal E9/B6 plus the 9th-string D. Best of both worlds!
pics here |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 31 Aug 2009 12:22 pm
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John - it looks very much like one that was sitting in Ron Mawn's front room a little while ago.
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Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 1 Sep 2009 12:27 am
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Hi John...I think that is the one Bill Stafford had. Ron Mawn who ran the Sho-Bud shop in Denmark street London bought that off Bill many years ago, it was one of the first with gearless tuners.I played it at Ron's house when he lived in South London. Has it got a light Aluminium case?? Ron sold it on to another guy in England. I just missed out on that 
Micky Byrne United Kingdom
www.micky-byrne.co.uk |
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Bill Stafford
From:
Gulfport,Ms. USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2009 4:44 am 14
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WOW, sure nice to see all this interest regarding the 14 string E9/B6 set up. I really enjoyed my years at Sierra. Nice to see my old steels again. Hope they serve you well. Great instruments and one of the best too.
The high G# was installed on my first Sierra many years ago to allow me to keep the high sixth note on top of my old 12 string C6. This G# becomes that "A" note on the first fret. I just was not comfortable "going back down" in the string structure to play that note on the standard third string for my efforts at C6 playing. And, this being an open G# gave me added notes in the E9 with the old third string, my fourth now, being raised to an A note allowed the sevenths, ninths, elevenths, twelvths and thirteenth notes to be in the structure waiting to be used as the player sees fit.
I now use a 120 ga E note on my 14th string. You can hear a song from my new cd just recorded last week and hopefully hear that I do not use it to compete with the bass players. You can hear a sample song-"My Mother's Eyes" on Charles Tilley's site "Steels Heard around the world". I used my five year old EXCEL on this one and I was very pleased with the tone of this one.
Have had no tuning problems what so ever with this steel and if I have had to tweak the changer rods three times in these five years, that would be two too many. Hard to believe, but that is how it is.
First string I broke was after two years-the 018 B string finally gave up the ghost. This string even "told" me it was finished when I could hear the strings efforts in reaching the C# but I kept it on just to see how long it would really last. That is the only string that has broken on this EXCEL. It is also the 25 1/2"scale model with that little tab on pedal 7. I took the standard 7th pedal set up and moved it to an inside, middle of the steel-centered over pedals 4 through 8- and this allowed me to use this change with the standard C6 pedals as desired. I then installed on pedal seven the same changes as on the original E9 B pedal which gave me a seventh in the B6 tuning with the Es locked in place. Using this pedal with the tab now gave me the standard diminished with an added seventh note when all three pedals are use at once with just an angle of the foot. Not difficult to use and that chord is really nice the way it all works out. Very smooth structure.
Glad to see this interest. Keep up the good work guys. Hope to see a lot of you in St. Louis. Look me up at the EXCEL booth too.
Bill Stafford |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 1 Sep 2009 8:02 am
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Thanks Bill for the info on the Sierra 14, it explains the three G# - A on the sevent pedal.
I have never heard a tone like this guitar, it just fills the room with a rich deep and very clear sound.
Our bass player asked me if I would like to do the bass parts from now on..
It is taken me a while to get used to not having the F# on top, so I have to relearn some of my licks again but I'll get there. I also have a Sierra 12 as well that I also love playing.
Bill would it be possible to put the new style micro tuners on the your old guitar? ..
Thanks again, I will take great care of your Sierra..
John |
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Bill Stafford
From:
Gulfport,Ms. USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2009 2:56 am Micro Tuners
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John, I will see if those new tuners will fit -that is, if Tom Baker is in St. Louis this weekend.
And, looking at your tuning, you might want to add another pull to P1 and engage string 13 "B" to "C#". This will give you all the same changes that you use in the top string groupings. All that happens when A & B are used is now happening in the lower register.
Here is a fun example-in E chord in the E9 tuning:Using strings 10,9,8 & 7 and pick in order-
Pick string 10 (lower with P8)
Pick string 9 open
Pick string 8 open
Pick string 7 open
Release P8, Engage P1 and Repeat strings 10 - 8
Release P8, Engage Lever that raises 10 to the D
Then repeat strings 10 thru 7
Done in time, you will hear the intro to "Raining in My Heart" and now you can do that in any key you like.
(This B note can now be manipulated from a Bb to B to C to C# and then to D-and in both tunings when desired). Just one neat example.
Neat example of how the B6 (C6 pedals) work out of the E tuning. Glad to see all is in good hands.
Bill Stafford |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 2 Sep 2009 4:51 am
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Thanks Bill, my tuning is the one you put on it ,it has the B 13 string raise to C# on Pedal 1 and all the G# to A on the 7 pedal.
I'll post the full tuning as soon as I get to my scanner....Your info is much appreciated..John |
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Jimmy Gibson
From:
Cornwall, England
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Posted 2 Oct 2019 6:42 am I have that steel at the moment
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Hi John,it’s a small world,I now have the Sierra Gearless that used to belong to you ,it is a real stunner,it has been updated with a Kline micro tuning system,sounds and plays great.Just to ask John,is the original tuning system not very good?i still have the original system and have been considering putting it back on,is there any reason why I should not go ahead and put it back on?
Jimmy
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Archie Nicol R.I.P.
From:
Ayrshire, Scotland
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