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Topic: Third string problem... please help! |
Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Oct 2019 3:56 pm |
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In a nutshell, BMI S-10 with .011 on 3rd string.
B pedal raises 3 and 6. 6 is no problem, but 3 is very sensitive on the pedal and raises immediately upon touching the pedal -= seems there is no 'play' on string 3 only.
If I grab the rod on A or C, I cannot engage the changes by pulling down on the rod; with the B pedal, I can easily do this.
I don't feel as though I should have to be this careful - A and C, and the 6th string on the B pedal, require significant pressure on the pedal to engage; String 3 begins to engage at the very top of the pedal travel. I have the pedal rod and the changer rod at about midpoint - I've switched them around and to no avail.
I feel as though the return is based solely on the string tension. If this is the case, will rigging up a helper spring make a difference?
Thanks for your help! |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 8 Oct 2019 4:43 pm
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String 3 is a much longer pull than string 6 because of the smaller string gauge. You need to adjust leverage between the two strings to compensate so that they start and end together. Closer to the axle on the changer end, and further from the axle on the bell crank makes for a shorter pull, and vice versa.
Based on your description, you need some combination of a shorter pull on 3 and/or longer pull on 6 to balance them out. Adjust pedal travel as required to make sure there is still a little slack in the pull rods in the neutral position (the stop screw in the cross bar). You may not get them perfectly timed, but you should be able to get them very close.
Your last statement/question doesn't entirely make sense, but no, helper springs have no effect on the length of a pull. All they are meant to do is make the pull a little lighter by offsetting some of the resistance caused by string tension. The actual distance the string has to pull for a given change is not affected. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 8 Oct 2019 7:11 pm
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Landon - On my BMI I have the pull rods like this:
String 3 is hooked up to the hole that is farthest away from the cross bar.
String 6 is hooked up to the hole that is closest to the cross bar.
On the changer:
String 3 rod is in the middle raise hole.
String 6 rod is in the lowest raise hole.
String 3 is a .011.
String 6 is a .020 plain.
On the crossbar there should be a screw with a locking nut that is used to adjust the travel. You may want to back that screw out some, while you move rods around. That will leave some slop (technical term) in the pulls. You can adjust it later.
I hope this helps.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Michael Hill
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 8 Oct 2019 7:52 pm
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| A while back I changed my string 3 string gauge. After doing so, I immediately noticed that strings 3 and 6 no longer changed at the same rate. I fixed this by changing the hole used on the bell crank for string 3. Trial and error got me to a good setup very quickly. I think the same type of trial and error will work for you too. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 1:39 am
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Lee has it properly stated. Its called physics. This is why we have multiple holes in the bellcranks. Its not for "good looks"...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 4:05 am
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| If you have them properly timed, you shouldn’t feel that 3 is easier than 6. They should start pulling at the same time so you should feel the combined effort of the two. And you need just a bit of slack before they start so that they both can fully return to neutral when you let off. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 6:16 am Third string problem please help
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| I rest my foot lightly on the pedals when they are not engaged. My third was being pulled at the slightest touch of the pedal. I had to adjust it so this didn't happen. I must have a little slack so I can rest my foot with nothing happening. |
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Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 3:40 pm George how did you accomplish this?
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This is the exact problem I have. I cannot rest my foot anywhere near the B pedal. whereas the A and C pedals I can rest my foot on. It requires positive pressure to engage them. There is no slack. I have set up the rods as suggested and no real change. There needs to be some slack before the pedal engages the change. There is on A and B, as well as string 6.
My question about helper springs may have been misworded - I was referring to a spring that will hold the B pedal up, making it harder to press, but what I really need is slack on that pull.
How do I get slack; i.e. travel before engagement? |
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Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 4:29 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| Lee has it properly stated. Its called physics. This is why we have multiple holes in the bellcranks. Its not for "good looks"... |
Sorry Tony; my calculator is in the shop  |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 6:25 pm
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| On the crossbar there should be a screw with a locking nut that is used to adjust the travel. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 9:04 pm
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| There have been a number of times that I've had to drill a hole on the 3rd string BMI bellcrank between the top of the bellcrank and the top hole in order to get the pulls even. I attributed this to wear in the changer. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 9 Oct 2019 11:11 pm Third string problem...please help
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| Here is what needs to happen to get more slack in a pedal pull, in general. Think of it like this: The pull rod is too short and needs to be longer. How do you make it longer? By unscrewing the tuning nut. But that creates a problem. When you push the pedal, your string will not be pulled enough and will be flat. How do you solve this problem? You move the pull rod up a notch (or hole) on the bellcrank away from the shaft. Now there is a longer throw and the pull rod will be pulled a greater distance. If that slot (hole) doesn't work, move up another slot (hole) on the bellcrank away from the shaft. If you end up at the slot furtherest away from the shaft and you still don't have enough slack. then more drastic action will be required. You may have to get a slightly longer pull rod or as Jim mentioned, drill another hole even further away from the shaft. Depending on the make and design of the guitar, this may or may not be possible. The whole thing is the relationship between the length of the pull rod and which slot (hole) you use on the bellcrank. |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 4:15 am
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| The BMI I worked on had a pin near the outer edge on the end of the cross shaft plate that ran in an arced slot in the apron plate. When the pin hits the end of the slot, that’s it, no adjustment. I ground that pin down to get the little bit of slack I needed. I don’t recommend that. I like Jim’s extra hole in the bellcrank idea. Also you may need to train your foot to not ride the pedals. I catch myself resting my leg against the F lever. I feel your pain though. I had a JCH that had a soft A pedal. It wasn’t out of adjustment, just soft. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 9:50 am
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| Danny Letz wrote: |
| The BMI I worked on had a pin near the outer edge on the end of the cross shaft plate that ran in an arced slot in the apron plate. When the pin hits the end of the slot, that’s it, no adjustment.. |
Perhaps that's the way some of the older BMI guitars were built; however, on mine, on each cross bar there is a screw that goes completely through the bar. The end of the screw makes contact with the body of the guitar. Using that screw, you can adjust the amount of movement the bar makes. Under the head of the screw is a nut, which is used to lock the screw in place, once adjusted.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 10 Oct 2019 3:35 pm
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| That's a whole lot more better Lee. Those guitars look kinda funky underneath, but the play and sound good. |
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