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Topic: Is Rock Music Dying? |
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2019 10:05 am |
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Here on the Steel Guitar Forum we often lament the decline of "real" country music. It seems to me that rock music has also been abandoned by the mainstream.
My friend and I were listening to Bad Company on a long drive. He told me that he recently looked at the Billboard Top 100 and found no real rock music on it. The next day, as I listened to Joe Bonamassa's 2012 album while filling SGF Catalog orders, I realized that he's right. Like country, the music is still available for true fans, but it's no longer a part of the mainstream of American music.
I love country music. I love rock. I love classic R&B. I love reggae. I hope that future generations will develop an appreciation for 20th century music. I'll keep on buying new music in those genres as long as it's available.
And... Long Live Vinyl!
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 4 Sep 2019 10:53 am Re: Is Rock Music Dying?
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| b0b wrote: |
He told me that he recently looked at the Billboard Top 100 and found no real rock music on it.
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Here's somebody's list of the top 30 from 1999 and then the top 30 from 1979.
How many of those are "real rock music"?
Dying or 50 plus years dead?
1999:
1 Believe - Cher
2 No Scrubs - TLC
3 Angel of Mine - Monica
4 Heartbreak Hotel - Whitney Houston featuring Faith Evans and Kelly Price
5 Baby One More Time - Britney Spears
6 Kiss Me - Sixpence None the Richer
7 Genie in a Bottle - Christina Aguilera
8 Every Morning - Sugar Ray
9 Nobody's Supposed to Be Here - Deborah Cox
10 Livin' la Vida Loca - Ricky Martin
11 Where My Girls At? - 702
12 If You Had My Love - Jennifer Lopez
13 Slide - Goo Goo Dolls
14 Have You Ever? - Brandy
15 I Want It That Way - Backstreet Boys
16 I'm Your Angel - R. Kelly and Celine Dion
17 All Star - Smash Mouth
18 Angel - Sarah McLachlan
19 Smooth - Santana featuring Rob Thomas
20 Unpretty - TLC
21 Bills, Bills, Bills - Destiny's Child
22 Save Tonight - Eagle-Eye Cherry
23 Last Kiss - Pearl Jam
24 Fortunate - Maxwell
25 All I Have to Give - Backstreet Boys
26 Bailamos - Enrique Iglesias
27 What's It Gonna Be?! - Busta Rhymes featuring Janet
28 What It's Like - Everlast
29 Fly Away - Lenny Kravitz
30 Someday - Sugar Ray
1979:
1 Knack My Sharona
2 Donna Summer Bad Girls
3 Chic Le Freak
4 Rod Stewart Da Ya Think I'm Sexy
5 Peaches and Herb Reunited
6 Gloria Gaynor I Will Survive
7 Donna Summer Hot Stuff
8 Village People Y.M.C.A.
9 Anita Ward Ring My Bell
10 Robert John Sad Eyes
11 Bee Gees Too Much Heaven
12 Donna Summer MacArthur Park
13 Dr. Hook When You're In Love With A Beautiful Woman
14 David Naughton Makin' It
15 Pointer Sisters Fire
16 Bee Gees Tragedy
17 Olivia Newton-John A Little More Love
18 Blondie Heart Of Glass
19 Doobie Brothers What A Fool Believes
20 Chic Good Times
21 Barbra Streisand and Neil Diamond You Don't Bring Me Flowers
22 Amii Stewart Knock On Wood
23 Suzi Quatro and Chris Norman Stumblin' In
24 Maxine Nightingale Lead Me On
25 Jacksons Shake Your Body
26 Melissa Manchester Don't Cry Out Loud
27 Supertramp The Logical Song
28 Billy Joel My Life
29 Randy Vanwarmer Just When I Needed You Most
30 Raydio You Can't Change That |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2019 11:11 am
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I hear you b0b. I do think rock is alive and well because of satellite radio. But on the standard radio airwaves, music is almost bipolar.
If you roll up to a stop light and you roll down your window and listen to what the other drivers are listening to, it seems like there is either:
A) Hip-hop rap beat with heavy bass and staccato lyrics (you don't have to roll down your window for this).
or
B) the new Rock and/or Nashville Pop (some might call it country) with an anthem formulaic sound that reminds me of all the river-dance clogging line-dance lessons that my daughter attended 30 years ago.
There is some really good rock and country and R&B out there, but it's not easy to find on the standard airwaves. In my little backwoods town, we have a couple cool little outdoor venues and we get some great bands from time to time. And despite a lot of man-buns in the audience (even in this redneck town) , the crowd has pretty good taste in what they like to see.
Funny story about our local radio station: I won a $5 bet with someone from Alaska, while working in Antarctica, that it was the worst radio station in the world. Our radio channel will play in a ten minute period, Elton's Tiny Dancer, then Liberace, then Crystal Gale, then KISS, then Tie a Yellow Ribbon on the Old Oak tree, then and on and on of the most psychotic mix. . . it is the most schizophrenic mess of S-H double hockey sticks you've ever heard in your life.
So years ago, a friend and I were working at the bottom of the world, he said his radio station in AK was the worst. I said, no way, my station is the worst. We figured out that we each knew a mutual friend, Jay, who had left my town in Idaho to go teach school in his little town in Alaska. We would redeploy to the northern hemisphere in a few months, he would ask this mutual friend, and then we would meet up the next fall in Antarctica and discuss the "Worst Radio Station in the World".
That next October, he stepped off the Air Force C-141 at McMurdo Station, and walked up to me and handed me a five dollar bill.
"Jay said it isn't even close. Pay Brooks the five dollars."
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Sep 2019 3:31 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...Like country, the music is still available for true fans, but it's no longer a part of the mainstream of American music. |
"Corporate Rock" ruined rock music, just like "corporate country" ruined country music. Really, when you compare the music of 50 years ago with the music of today, it's like comparing drive-in food to fine dining. By and large, the stuff produced today by big labels is mostly crap...make a fast buck on this song, then make another one similar. It's "cookie-cutter" $#!& -hole music. What they're concentrating on is the image, the sex appeal, the "look". The actual music nowadays is really secondary. |
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gary pierce
From:
Rossville TN
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Posted 4 Sep 2019 4:31 pm
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There will never be rock music like we grew up on from the 50's, 60's, and 70's.
Thats why they call it Classic Rock. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 4 Sep 2019 4:33 pm
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Music itself is dead on mainstream, commercial, over-the-air radio. But rock, country, bluegrass, blues, jazz, folk, and lots of other music lives on in other venues tuned in to people who actually care about music. There are some "classic rock" stations in many markets, but on the ones I hear, they play the same small playlist over and over. I love Led Zeppelin, but how many times do I wanna hear Whole Lotta Love and Stairway to Heaven in one day? And the same with other classic rock bands.
Every once in a while, in a given market, someone will try to put up an over-the-air radio station with a mix of real music, past and present. We had one here for a year or two, and then they suddenly pulled the plug and went to an internet-only format. Couldn't get enough advertising sponsorship. There's truly no room for even remotely niche presentations in a commercial atmosphere. Yes, there are college and other more-or-less independent stations. But mainstream is for the mean plus-or-minus one sigma audience, or about 2/3 of the market. The remaining 1/3, tough crap.
Advertising sponsorship and the jackasses that run it are the bane of all forms of entertainment. You'd think that with all the money people pay for cable/dish/whatever that there'd be some reasonable options for entertainment in general that doesn't depend on some Madison Ave. jackass deciding that (s)he can foist some garbage off on unsuspecting viewers/listeners. But forget about it. It's been dead for decades, and it ain't comin' back unless there's a revolution with the FCC.
| Quote: |
| And... Long Live Vinyl! |
Vinyl is back. Record presses are operating at capacity. Try to get a record pressed, there's a queue. Many Millenials get it about real music versus plasticine crap. And don't think that all the real music is old-school. Lots of new and good ideas in the last 30 years. But most of it will never see the light of day on commercial radio. My opinion and prediction, anyway. I hope I'm wrong. |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 4 Sep 2019 5:57 pm
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bOb, I have argued for some time that rock music is "dead". Also Jazz. By that, I do not mean that there is no good rock or jazz being recorded or played today. But, if a band releases a rock recording that gets attention, it is because it is tied so closely musically to rock music of the 60's and 70's - you could even say "imitatively" so. Same with Jazz. While there are a few musicians out there playing jazz that is not, imo, imitative of jazz from 50 years ago, it mostly does not get noticed. The best example I can give is the rock band most popular with my friends from my generation that is big now is Tadeschi Trucks Band. Great band. But honestly, their music is clearly rooted in the 60's and 70's, not today.
We could argue semantics here: maybe "dead" is not the right term. What I am saying is, for these two genres of music, the greatest years of composition, performance, and yes, popularity, are behind them. Each was the totally dominant music of their day - most albums sold, most play on radios, etc. Now, more people listen to the music from those "heydays" than to current releases of the genre - they play their old albums, they listen to "classic rock" or "classic jazz" radio stations or internet stations.
Country music is sort of unique - it's current version (which most of us dislike) is one of, if not, the most popular music of the day. Yeah, we bemoan the loss of classic country (particularly the lack of use of pedal steel). But pop country is a very vibrant music style today. And, a few years ago, while sailing half-way around the world to return to the Caribbean and gainful employment, I was surprised to find country music was very popular in some rather remote places - most notably being St Helena and Ascension Islands - to remote British islands in the South Atlantic. Country is the overwhelming preferred music in both places! It is also very popular in Virgin Gorda (British Virgin Islands) and St Vincent and St Lucia - two formerly British islands in the Caribbean (Tommy Detamore recently played a big concert in St Lucia). I don't think Country is the top music in the English-speaking Caribbean - Soca is. But Country is probably number 2 on many of these islands.
Having said all of this, I do not think it means one should not play rock, or jazz, anymore than one should not play baroque - another style of music whose greatest era is in the past. If there is any original baroque, it is imitative for sure - here is a whole list of pop tunes arranged as baroque fugues (a fugue, for those who don't know and don't mind my simplistic explanation, is a piece that has multiple melodies playing simultaneously, in different pitch ranges - with the "theme" slowly working through each melody. This is true "counterpoint"). If you listen to only one, check out the Lady Gaga one!
https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/latest/pop-fugues/
But beyond classical geeks having fun with current pop hits, there is, of course, a huge world where the music from the baroque, romantic, and other periods of classical music are still studied, discussed, played, and avidly listened to by passionate fans. So being "dead" in the sense I used the term does not mean relegated to the dust-bins of history.
I say, listen (and play) what you like, and keep an open mind about music you have not heard. And, hardest of all, try to be creative no matter the genre - don't just do what has been done before, but find a unique voice in your music.
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Travis Wilson
From:
Johnson City, TX
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 4:44 am
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| Music evolves. That’s just it’s nature, nothing will remain the same. So music doesn’t really die, it just very slowly changes into something else. They have this same discussion in every genre. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 5:48 am
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Don't we sound a little like our parents when "our" music first came out? I'm just sayin'... |
Indeed. And like our grandparents did when our parents' music came out, and... |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 7:13 am
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Don't we sound a little like our parents when "our" music first came out? I'm just sayin'... |
This argument never had any credibility for me. Either your parents have a musical ear or they don't. Bernstein liked the Beatles, enough said.
Mitch Drumm posted some charts fom the late seventies and made a leap to the late nineties.
Even back in the eighties,as a thirty years old, I was highly suspicious of the development, so I dug out the good stuff that was still somewhere to be found in the charts:
Marshall Crenshaw
Aztec Camera
Bluebells
Rodney Crowell, I could make a whole list.
There's this phrase: just because I'm old doesn't mean that your music doesn't suck.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 7:50 am
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Don't we sound a little like our parents when "our" music first came out? I'm just sayin'... |
I'm trying not to go there. I don't think the lack of stylistic diversity in mainstream commercial radio is a generational thing. There are plenty of younger musicians and bands playing rock, country, blues, metal, folk, jazz, or whatever classic style you want to name. But IMO it can't get serious airplay, not because nobody wants to listen to it but because the mainstream airwaves are controlled by entities bent in a different direction for lots of reasons.
A big problem, IMO, is that it's so expensive to license and run a commercial station now that, excepting college/public type stations, only large, corporate stations catering to a large audience can survive. Back in the 60s and 70s, there were lots of, usually smaller, "alternative" (my terminology) stations that played various types of music. They didn't have a ton of power, but didn't have (or need) a ton of advertising revenue to survive. I'm talking about mainstream jazz, blues, folk, classical, the emerging "underground" rock, and so on.
I realize that to a large extent, younger audiences have move on from over-the-air radio, and frankly, so did I 25 years ago. With the exception of that one station I mentioned earlier plus the college stations here (one run by admin, one run by students), I've barely tuned in a commercial radio station for more than 10 minutes in that time. What's the point? I have many other sources for music that don't suck. BTW, the student-run college station has lots of stylistic diversity - rock of all types, blues, jazz, folk/bluegrass, hippie music, salsa, hip-hop, reggae, international music of all kinds, classical, you name it.
I also don't think that the ratings moguls accurately capture stuff that is outside that mean +- 1 sigma range. Self-fulfilling prophecy? And the fact that older people don't generally find anything to listen to on mainstream outlets turns their lack of participation into yet more self-fulfilling prophecy. Everybody says older people don't participate, buy music, etc. Well, why would they? I think radio is mostly an older-person outlet, and what do they hear when they turn on a mainstream radio station? Unless they wanna hear the same 50-100 classic rock songs over and over, nothing they'd want to listen to.
I really think the problem is that, as Donny says, it's the total large-corporate takeover of the mainstream entertainment industry. There's no room for variance, and the reason is business-structural.
Anyway - I don't think it's largely generational. I taught at a big state university for a big chunk of the last 30 years. Many of my students listened to a lot of different styles of music, I know because we talked about music plenty. I'm retired, but still see plenty of students when I play out. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 8:51 am
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You know what’s dying? We are.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 9:34 am
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| Travis Wilson wrote: |
| Music evolves. That’s just it’s nature, nothing will remain the same. So music doesn’t really die, it just very slowly changes into something else. They have this same discussion in every genre. |
in most popular genres, we are witnessing the de-evolution of music
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 5 Sep 2019 2:24 pm
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Here is an interview that Dan Rather did with Gene Simmons of KISS.
He talks about the music industry and gives his take on several aspects of it, several minutes before and after this key point that I've hi-lighted.
Whether or not you know who he is, or like him or not, or like his music or not, or whatever, isn't the point here.
I'm posting this because I believe that it relates to the discussion currently going on.
The first 30 years, and the last 30 years.
Go to 9:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IhuoIsbgTA |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2019 7:04 am
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| ajm wrote: |
Here is an interview that Dan Rather did with Gene Simmons of KISS.
He talks about the music industry and gives his take on several aspects of it, several minutes before and after this key point that I've hi-lighted.
The first 30 years, and the last 30 years.
Go to 9:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IhuoIsbgTA |
“We killed Rock n Roll”. Wow, thanks, Gene!
Yeah, I know I’m taking that a little out of context. But his product was definitely the KISS of death for rock. All spectacle, no substance. The comment about having no hits was telling. A rock show venture capitalist doesn’t need them. I would say that just might be the standard MO of the post-80’s era.
I need a dose of Underground Garage....
Good post though, ajm. I enjoyed the interview.
Last edited by Fred Treece on 6 Sep 2019 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 6 Sep 2019 8:30 am
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Maybe he's right. Rock 'n roll was a dinosaur then, ready to fall over--that is, rock n roll in the sense of touring to sell records, the tipping point.
That is what rock was all about, and one could say its time is gone. There's still 'rock' and there was 'rock' before, and I remember it well at high school dances.
It was dance music. I don't know what it now that the medium has changed to pods and earpieces.
I tuned before KISS (Detective) so was in the high security area where you see the performers without makeup. Amps to the sky. Never seen it more excessive. Ready to fall.
And so, IMO, without substantial talent. Just my envy, I suppose, for the hookers whose box we sat behind, close enough to watch a dribble of spit from Simmons' mic as it dangled there in the spotlight forever....
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2019 9:04 am
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| Rock n roll is about rebellion. It rose out of a counterculture and grew it. What happens to any rebellion? Eventually it either wins or loses. If it wins, as RocknRoll did, power accepts it into its domain, its icons are glorified, and a mythology is created and perpetuated for as long as the money flows (Gene Simmons is acutely aware). If the rebellion fails...well, we wouldn’t be talking about it here. |
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Andy Jones
From:
Mississippi
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Posted 6 Sep 2019 1:42 pm
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| I don't think rock is dying out.It's being revitalized.Now it is called "country". |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 6 Sep 2019 3:59 pm
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https://theweek.com/articles/861750/coming-death-just-about-every-rock-legend
Behold the killing fields that lie before us: Bob Dylan (78 years old); Paul McCartney (77); Paul Simon (77) and Art Garfunkel (77); Carole King (77); Brian Wilson (77); Mick Jagger (76) and Keith Richards (75); Joni Mitchell (75); Jimmy Page (75) and Robert Plant (71); Ray Davies (75); Roger Daltrey (75) and Pete Townshend (74); Roger Waters (75) and David Gilmour (73); Rod Stewart (74); Eric Clapton (74); Debbie Harry (74); Neil Young (73); Van Morrison (73); Bryan Ferry (73); Elton John (72); Don Henley (72); James Taylor (71); Jackson Browne (70); Billy Joel (70); and Bruce Springsteen (69, but turning 70 next month).
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2019 10:34 pm
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Modern living being what it is, I don't believe that septuagenarians are necessarily near death. I just turned 70 myself, and my mom and her older sister are still alive and well. Let's not write off those aging rockers before their time.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 7 Sep 2019 6:45 am
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| I would hazard a guess that the median “clean living quotient” is a lot higher for your mom and aunt than for that list. Not very many people have the chemistry to survive a Keith Richards lifestyle! |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2019 8:44 am
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| Ken Pippus wrote: |
| I would hazard a guess that the median “clean living quotient” is a lot higher for your mom and aunt than for that list. Not very many people have the chemistry to survive a Keith Richards lifestyle! |
A planaria can’t survive a Keith Richards lifestyle!
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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