Could this be the future for the pedal steel

Jerry Heath · From: Harrah, Oklahoma, USA

What do you guys think, could this work on a pedal steel?
http://transperformance.com/perform/index2.htm

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Jerry Heath
Sierra Sessions U-12
Nashville 400
Sessions 400
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Pod XT

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Could it work? Yes. Would it be practical? No. Tuning is only the very start of playing a steel, a constantly-variable pitch instrument. It does little good to have a steel "in tune" if you can't play it in tune.

The fact that so few can agree on tuning methods for a pedal steel indcates that it's not a problem of tuning, but a problem of perception. Gadgets like this can tune open strings and pedals just fine, but they can't alter our perception of what is in tune or out of tune once we start playing.

That's where the biggest problem lies.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

No.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 20 July 2006 at 09:06 AM.]

basilh · From: United Kingdom

The best players can play an "Out of Tune" instrument ' In Tune'.. and of course vice versa, depending on the day and which way the wind blows etc.

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Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

As a gadget freak,I'm glad someone has invented that and I hope it works. But as a practical man,I see it as going up a hog's ass for a ham sandwich. Just gimme a guitar that stays in tune and I'll tune it.

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

144 pre-set tunings? fries my brain...

I'm having enough trouble with that C to the 6th power tuning... (Bought a bumper sticker that says E^9 + C^6 > E=MC^2). How true.

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 20 July 2006 at 09:58 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Motor Speed Adjustable -- full-speed changes one whole step per second

Peter · Posted 20 Jul 2006 9:39 am

Could it work for a PSG?

Don't think of it as a tuner.

Maybe the pushbuttons can be used as pedals for those who cannot use their knees and legs.
All you need is a bit of re-programming to set the buttons up like pedals and levers.

Consider the specs:
Accurate + / - 2 cents
Up to 9 half-steps per string (more than a pedal or lever)
Adjustable -- full-speed changes one whole step per second (a bit slow)

If the speed was adjustable, the system could be used as an electronic PSG, without any mechanical levers or pedals, just buttons or even MIDI controllers. It will just be a matter of time. I am sure Ed P. is already on it.

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Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I saw this in operation several yeas ago at the NAMM show. Very impressinve, but the price was $4.000, without the guitar.

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Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

I think there will always be a market for somthing like this for some steel player, but not everyone or to make it a 'standard'

I also think learning the scope of E9 and/or C6th is a lot like trying to empty the ocean with a tea cup. There's just so much more to be discovered yet (at least for me) in the traditional tunings of E9 and C6. Another tuning would only slow the process down for me.

Should it be built? Sure, someone will buy it. I could be wrong, but it seems like Buddy Emmons spoke of something like this and the future of steel guitar...(?)

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

I saw one of these at a guitar show years ago. Seems like it has some servo motors that ramp each string up and down. Jimmy Page had endorsed it. It has not really caught on after this amount of time.

David Doggett · Posted 20 Jul 2006 11:41 am

Well, this certainly would make tuning up before each set a breeze, also touching up between songs. Just give it strum, and within 1 second, bingo, you're in tune. This could be especially helpful when you've got new strings that are still stretching out. And it looks like it can accomodate any personal tampered tuning one might want.

While it can drop strings enough steps to get from E9 to C6, the gauges wouldn't be right on a 10-string. But going from 12-string extended E9 to C6 would probably work. So you could have both necks on an S12. I don't need it because I'm already happy with a uni; but those who have to have the D string for E9 could use it. Throw in a Sacred Steeler E7 tuning and this thing is getting really interesting even for a uni. It looks like it would have no trouble making an S8 lap steel into the equivalent of a quad-neck.

So I would say something like this has very interesting possibilities for ease of tuning and for getting us all playing single-necks.

I don't think this unit is what one would need to act with pedals and levers while playing. You'd want something faster, and that had a speed coupled to the speed of the pedals and levers. But maybe something along these lines isn't far behind.

On the other hand the 6-string version costs as much as a new pedal steel. Imagine what an 8- or 12-string version would cost. It's like those wide, flat TV screens. I'm waiting until the price drops about 80%.

Jerry Heath · From: Harrah, Oklahoma, USA

When I saw this today in this month's Design News Magazine my mind went to buzzing about the possibilities. The first thing I thought about was changing tuning (lowering E's) on a Uni setup. This would be a breeze with this setup. Then I thought about using it for pedal and lever changes. I have the same concern that David has; right now it's not quick enough (2 semitones per second). Now if it could do 2 semitones in about a 1/10th of a second and keep the accuracy, then I think it could work. Think about how easy the setup would be, all programmed. Take a look at your throttle pedal for your vehicle, not too long ago these were cable driven. Today new vehicles throttles are without cables, using a position sensor at your feet and inputting that position into a computer; the computer then moves a linear actuator to position the butterfly at the throttle body. This concept could be easily taken to the pedal steel. Now whether or not this is cost effective for the pedal steel today, probably not. Thanks everyone for the input. This is a great forum.

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Jerry Heath
Sierra Sessions U-12
Nashville 400
Sessions 400
Profex II
Pod XT

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Don't need this,what would I do sit with my wife on break,she KNOWS it takes me fifteen minutes to tune up between sets.

David Doggett · Posted 21 Jul 2006 5:54 am

Here's the budget version: http://www.hotguitarist.com/prod_review.html

I can't imagine this thing is very accurate, considering how much mechanical slack there is in most machine heads. But as a powered string winder that gets you close to pitch, this has interesting possibilities. Maybe if you can approach the pitch from below and stop it just right, it will get you passably in tune. But I can't tell if you can program in tampered tunings.

Colby Tipton · From: Crosby, Texas, USA

If I try to tune my steel it sounds like I'm out of tune. This is because I constantly adapt to being out of tune as it goes out of tune so slowly. Kind of like brakes on a car you just don't notice it.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

You have to go one step further and have it not only tune the open strings but also the pedals and knee levers. I see the cost going up and up.

We've played for years without this innovation. I'd rather put the money into better equipment.

Steve Robinson · Posted 21 Jul 2006 9:28 am

Yesterday I spoke at length to the inventor of this product (which is much cheaper than it once was, by the way). Just for fun, we discussed at length the concept of applying his technology to PSG. The goal would be simply to eliminate the mechanical linkage between pedals/KL's and the changer. Tonal accuracy is taken care of by a frequency feedback loop and a software control theorem when the string is near it's target pitch.

We concluded, as many of us have, that it would be perfectly possible to replace linkages with wires, given suitable position sensors for pedals, and his technology with faster stepper motors at the changer. It would also cost a bunch for the R&D. Maybe we need a Boeing PSG!

Speaking of aircraft, modern aircraft have certainly made the transition from mechanical linkages to fly-by-wire. They are exquisitely sensitive to pilot inputs and accurate in displacement, rate, and hysteresis. Only $ keeps us from play-by-wire.

None of this is to say it's a GOOD idea, just very possible.

David Doggett · Posted 21 Jul 2006 9:33 am

I don't think it would have to tune the pedals and levers. Most of us tune those carefully at home, and they hold for weeks, or until the strings start wearing out. At a gig most of us only touch up the open strings. Imagine how nice it would be to do that across all the strings at the touch of a button, and then start right in playing. Then you could touch up the tuning again as needed, even between every song. Think of how nice that would be with that new set of strings that keeps changing all the way through the night. This thing would be a great convenience. But not at its current price.

Duane Reese · Posted 21 Jul 2006 6:49 pm

Replace pedal steel? Nope.

Won't change the tuning fast enough for use in a pedal steel's standard motif tuning movement
Motors would no doubt wear out faster than standard pedal steel changer mechanism
Would either be limiting use with only 6 strings, or making it practically unplayable if more were added with hand going around the neck
Too expensive
Too "starship enterprise" for your average steel player's taste and style
Would require pedal use that would limit stage mobility to the point that you might as well be sitting down at a flat, table-like instrument anyhow
Would be like going up a hog's ass for a ham sandwich (I about died laughing at that!)
Using a slide would be undesireable compared to a steel bar, assuming string action would be low enough for fretted playing as well - that ability being the only possible benefit for doing it this way... Other than just being a guitar player that can't bear to play a stringed instrument flat with both hands over.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I guy was selling something like that for pedal steel at the St Louis convention about 10 years ago. I wonder if he is still around to tell us what his experience was.

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Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · From: Southaven, MS, USA

Several years ago, I asked an electrical engineer about some of those possibilities instead of pedals; also "power" pedals that could be trigered with a light touch. He said that it could be done, but the cost would be BIG. ----j----

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