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Topic: C6/A7 vs C13 on High G tuning 8 string? |
Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2019 12:53 pm |
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Anyone care to take sides on this?
I've still learning C6 basic stuff but have played with C6/A7 a bit. I definitely do notice and miss the lack of the bottom C string.
Was just reading Andy Volk's book and was intrigued by the Junior Brown C13 (Just C6 high G with a low Bb). I'd be interested in taking the Bb up an octave maybe.
Definitely attractive in keeping everything in one key center vs having discordant stuff on every fret.
But I've never tried it. Any thoughts?
Also noticing that if it was an octave higher, I could also easily retune to the Joaquin Murphy C6/A7 if I felt so inclined. |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2019 2:18 pm
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I recently started playing around with Junior’s tuning (but an “A13†version) on my eight-string Clinesmith, and I really like it. I find I use the fat eighth string a lot more now. Makes for some phat dom seven chords.
G-A-C#-E-F#-A-C#-E (low to high)
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 10:23 am
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| Well I tried it with the high Bb and I like it mostly. I'm having a hard time getting the unwoung Bb to ring nicely with the other strings. Could it be that the wound strings are preventing the bar from making good contact on the low unwound string? |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 5 Aug 2019 3:50 pm Re: C6/A7 vs C13 on High G tuning 8 string?
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| Paul McEvoy wrote: |
I definitely do notice and miss the lack of the bottom C string.
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[adopts Australian accent]
You call that a bottom C?
[whips out 070 gauge low C for Jules Ah See C13]
THIS is a bottom C!
I'm a Jules C13 partisan...but if I liked the fifth on top, the A13 or Junior Brown C13 would make a lot of sense too. I think C6/A7 fits (for me anyway) better on a 6 stringer, where the oddball note is the lowest...otherwise the extra two strings just sort of hang out in an odd A7 space.
Nice thing about Jules C13 or a similar variant...the "high E" C6 variants can retune easily to a lot of common tunings without a string change.
But yeah, Jules C13 is a lot of fun and my home tuning easily.
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2019 2:09 pm
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| I'm confused about why the high G makes it harder to retune. Seems like it could fit into a number of popular tunings as an F# or G#. Not the first time I've heard that. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 6 Aug 2019 3:37 pm
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| Paul McEvoy wrote: |
| I'm confused about why the high G makes it harder to retune. Seems like it could fit into a number of popular tunings as an F# or G#. Not the first time I've heard that. |
I'm sorry...you are right...you could retune easily with high G, just the trick is that the versions of the tunings you retune to will be different from the "more common" high E versions. For instance if you have B11, most people expect a high E and tabs will typically be written that way. Likewise the usual A6 is going to have a fifth (E) on top, not a 6th (F#) but there's nothing stopping you from tuning it that way and adapting tabs (or just ignoring the top string when playing that way).
A "high G" C6 can actually retune into a fun variant of B11, if you can tune up to G# on the top string. This is very similar to the Fmaj7/G9 tuning my teacher taught me a while back, in as much as a B11 tuning is more like a A6 on top with B9 on the bottom...throw a maj 7 on the top with a G# and you get a lush AMaj7 with a B9 (or B11) lower set of strings. If I could magically add a 9th string onto my Magnatone second neck I think I'd add that to my B11...
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 5:22 am
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Thanks Nic, that's what I thought. It's pretty much the same as learning C6 6 string tabs on the 8 string high G, yeah? Just ignore that you have an extra string?
I like this so far other than the low string not ringing nicely. Maybe the nut needs to be shimmed to get the unwound string to the same height as the wound strings? |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 5:55 am
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I’m definitely all about experimenting. I think having the Bb tuned up an octave will ultimately prove to be less useful than keeping it a whole step below the low C. Yes, you will be able to get the tension of the Bb and A being a m2nd apart, but if it were tuned down to where it normally is you’d have a M7th using those same two notes and a Bb string that is much more useful in single note playing. The chords available with the standard C13 are very useful, if not essential, such as the 13th chord voicing (b7 3 13) and also Maj9#11 type sounds.
Another important but little known factor is the usefulness of the slants that involve the Bb, both forward and reverse. In both cases, we can achieve a V-I cadence. Too important for me to sacrifice, personally.
Just my opinion, and free advice is sometimes only worth what it costs.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 11:23 am
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A strum from the low flatted 7 up to the 13th (6th) on the dominant chord is worth price of admission! A really cool sound IMO. I have a few arrangements with three fret slants on the low b7-1-3. So if you have it on say the seventh fret, dominant chord...you forward slant with the middle string in place, giving you a tonic triad 1-3-5. I use it when I play 'Akaka Falls.
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2019 8:10 pm
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On 8-string non-pedal I've used Jr Brown's C13 to great satisfaction and also Murph's C6/A7 except with the high B on top instead of on the bottom like Murph cause it made more sense to me. Nowadays I use the Jr Brown C13 except in A because it has more balls and still has a nice high range as well. It seems to hit the sweet spot on a longer scale ax. Plus the 5 on top rings out strong tuned down to A13 because of the heavier gauge E string.
Lo>Hi G-A=C#-E-F#-A-C#-E
I can get plenty enough extensions with this tuning to play the changes I want to play and do the connecting tissue with slants and single string lines. I'm not a fan of having a bunch of different tunings, lugging 3 or 4 neck guitars around or retuning between songs. I'd rather know one versatile tuning really well on a killer sounding guitar and just play.
https://youtu.be/OqYJKYWtbVw |
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Hideki Hattori
From:
Tokyo, Japan
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Posted 8 Aug 2019 4:58 am
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| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
| I have a few arrangements with three fret slants on the low b7-1-3. So if you have it on say the seventh fret, dominant chord...you forward slant with the middle string in place, giving you a tonic triad 1-3-5. I use it when I play 'Akaka Falls. |
I like that emotional lick very much. It is one of the reasons that I tune C13. Gabby Pahinui used it a lot, like Blue Hawaiian Moonlight and Yellow Roses.
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20’s Weissenborn, 30’s Rickenbacher A-22 Frypan, 40’s Rickenbacher B7, 40’s Dickerson MOTS, 50’s National Grande Console D8, 50’s National Dynamic, 80’s Japanese Fender Stringmaster S8, Goldtone 8 strings resonator, 2019 Clinesmith Frypan 8, 2020 Clinesmith Frypan 7 |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2019 5:29 am
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Thanks for all this guys.
Maybe it would out of control but maybe a 10 string
high to low of B G E C A G E C Bb C
with the high B being between the C and A would cover all the bases (or overkill?) |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 8 Aug 2019 7:20 am
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Would have to be a pretty light gauge string to get up to B on top but I'm sure it can be done...John Ely's string gauge chart goes up to high A and lists 9-11 for that, so maybe an 8 or 9 would work for that. Never tried anything that light on a steel before.
I've wondered how I would string up a 10 string before...but until Todd Clinesmith starts making 10 string frying pans I'm probably going to stick with 8! 
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2019 7:38 am
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The B would be between the C and A. So not a thin string.
Was checking out the Maurice Anderson 12 string tuning which after this conversation I finally understand. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 8 Aug 2019 7:10 pm The 7th on the bottom is a good one
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I play my Clinesmith short scale with A6th. Often retune the bottom F# up to G and find it more useful than the 6th tone there.
I also sometimes tune it down to E for simple rhythm stuff, Boom Chuck Chuck Bum Chuck Chuck Boom Chuck Chuck Bum Chuck Chuck... Well I did say simple! But it's good on old country tunes. 
Like the way I write music? 
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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